Provo Utah, how is it for non LDS people

In My Humble Opinion
1

Does anyone here know Provo, Utah?
Long story short, possibility of an excellent job there, the skiing is awesome, and apparently crime is low and the schools (young elementary age kids) are good.

However I have heard that it is fairly chock full of LDS people, now I don’t care what other people believe, so long as they are nice and are happy to live and let live, all is cool with me. That said, does anyone know if the whole LDS thing permeates into the schools with the teachers, and how the kids might be treated being from a non religious, specifically non LDS family.

If anyone has any other opinions on Provo Utah , please feel free to post.(I know the skiing is good). I appreciate this is a message broad and all that, additional research will be undertaken, any pointers welcome.
cheers
NBC

2

I used to spend a lot of time in Utah, and yes, Provo is about the most LDS spot in the state. I think it is 90% + LDS. It is home to BYU, which has about 35,000 students, 98% of them Mormon.

That said, Provo is really just a suburb of Salt Lake City. There’s a whole string of independant cities from Ogden on the north to Spanish Fork in the south. There is really no natural geographical break between the cities - it is all one megalopolis. Provo isn’t much more than 1/2 hour from downtown SLC, which is considered a den of iniquity by the residents of Provo.

Salt Lake City, as I found, has a pretty decent underground network of people whose lives don’t revolve around the church (any of them). It’s a small but tight group and they’re just like any other group of young people anywhere.

Yes, the liquor laws are crazy and you can’t get good beer, and the people tend to base their social activities around church events, but all in all it’s not a bad place, especially if you have a good job. You can be on the slopes in less than an hour from Provo.

I wouldn’t pick it if I could choose to live anywhere, but there are a lot of other places that would be behind it on my list. I think my biggest problem with it is that it is so isolated. Denver is eight hours away, as is Las Vegas.

3

Provo isn’t the “most LDS” place in Utah – there are plenty of small towns that would fit that description better. Not all BYU students are LDS, although most are.

It’s a University town, with lots of shops and things to do. Actually, it’s big enough – much bigger, I think, than places like Grinnell, Iowa. Like most Utah towns, it is extremely clean and, I thought, friendly. There are lots of movie theaters, restaurants, and the like. There is a LOT of outdoor stuff – not just awsome skiing close by (and cross-country, and other winter sports), but also hiking (Bridal Veil Falls!) kayaking, spelunking/caving, and rock climbing. Timpanogos Cave is nearby.

If you get fed up with Provo, Salt Lake is an hour up US-15, and you can find decent wine stores, coffee shops, restaurants, and the like up there. (And it’s only an hour from there across the Salt Desert to Wendover, Nevada, which only exists, I think, because it’s so close to Salt Lake. I think several Nevada towns are actually closer than 2 hours to Provo, but i never had to go from there).
Of course, you will get the Utah LDS influence. The public TV station from Provo, KBYU, censors its offwerings (although the University of Utah station, KUED, didn’t, when I lived there. And you ought to be able to get both). They censor plays, too. And stores sell bowdlerized versions of movies (or used to, at least). You could get Playboy at the magazine stores in SLC – i don’t know about Provo. Bars in Utah sell nothing stronger than 3,.2 beer. You can join Private Clubs in SLC, but I don’t know about Provo.
Some people feel the folks are a bit insular, and completely organize their lives around the Church. I didn’t get a sense of this in SLC, but YMMV. I could have lived there for many more years, but Pepper mill, who visited with me, says she could not have. I’d visit and see how I felt.

4

Thanks for the feedback
Will almost certainly make a recce trip with the good lady if things progress.

5

Do plain-old bard sell liquor as well, or JUST the low-alcohol beer? I assume that it’s not a dry state - one can go to a liquor store and buy a fifth of Jack, right?

Joe

6

It’s many years since I left Utah, but I think the rules are still pretty much the same.

1.) You can’t get anythimng stronger than 3.2 beer in a Utah bar. This includess alcohol. This makes Utah bars odd places. I beluieve they can sell you set-ups, but you have to provide your own liquor. Stripper bars (in places like Roy, Utah, near the air base) present an odd spectacle – the strippers can’t actually take off their clothes past a certai point (which would pass muster at any beach), and they can’t sell you anything stronger than 3.2 beer.
2.) If you want to drink, you can join a Private Club. these sell alcohol by the bottle, so you get a lot of drinks made from mini-bottles, and you can buy small bottles of wine. You need a member to vouch for you (this is pretty casual) and you need to buy a yearly membership (usually pretty cheap). Some hotels, I think, declare all guests members.

3.) Some restaurants have the front declared a Utah Liquor Store. You can buy your drink there, and a waitperson brings it to your table with the meal.

4.) There are state liquor stores where you can buy any alcoholic beverage they sell. There used to be a pretty decent selection of wines at the one in Trolley Square (which may not be there any more)

5.) a lot of these rules get seriously bent at the ski resorts.

6.) There’s always Wendover, Elko, and Vegas in Nevada. Or you can go to Idaho, Arizona, Wyoming, or Colorado, if they’re closer to you.

7

Their men’s rugby club, the Steelers, is quite well known throughout the Pacific Coast and Western Territorial Unions. Unfortunately, it’s because three of them were arrested in 2000 for a fight that occurred during a game against the Denver Barbarians. In 2004, there was a nasty brawl during a tournament in Snake River where Provo got themselves disbanded from the union. The November 2004 issue of Rugby Magazine had an article describing the event, titled, “Will Utah clubs ever be invited anywhere?” In 2005, however, they were allowed to resume competition, and have since shown great promise on the pitch, and are making strides towards becoming a national force.

8

Hi, my name is dangermom, and I’m a Mormon. But I’ve never lived in Utah and I didn’t go to BYU. I’ve visited a couple of times, that 's all.

Provo is quite a pleasant city–lots of stuff to do, shopping, all that. I’ve found that Utah is, in general, very family-friendly–there’s a lot to do with kids, places to go, parks, etc. and it’s quite common in neighborhoods for kids to just run around from one house to the next like we did when we were kids.

IME it’s not necessarily very easy (as an adult) to move into a city in Utah and make a lot of friends very fast. A lot of people live near their extended families and already have plenty of social life, so there’s maybe not the need for more friends that you get elsewhere. This goes for LDS folks as well (probably more so).

People do tend to be quite involved with church stuff, and that’s where a lot goes on. And the majority is so huge that folks might be kind of insular. Kids being kids, they might well leave out or tease kids who don’t belong to the majority–but you should know that LDS church leaders are always trying to squish that. It’s not right–but it does happen. If it does, you can tell a teacher and work with her on it, like you would for anything. It’s to be hoped that no one is assuming that every kid in a classroom is LDS–even Provo isn’t that completely 100%.

Note that no one is going to be available to play on Sundays or Monday evenings. Mormons just aren’t supposed to play on Sundays (you can invite people over for dinner though) and Monday is family night. So you could, for example, invite an entire family over for a game night and goodies on a Monday–that would go over really well–but don’t expect any LDS kids to be able to just come out and play at those times, and don’t take it personally.

9

I used to live in SLC for a long time, Provo is considerably more LDS than the capital. A few things:

To your liquor question, yes as Cal said you have to be in a private club to get a decent drink and anything above 3.2 beer has to be purchased at a liquor store. You will find no wine for sale in grocery stores either. I am sure there are some bars in Provo but I wouldn’t be surprised if they were more sparse than in SLC.

I, not being LDS, found that while people are friendly, don’t be surprised if you only have passing relationships with a lot of folks. I had a lot of experience where people would be perfectly friendly but not really include me in a lot of things either. Also, this could be because I was unapologetically someone who partook in vices (coffee and booze).

Also, when you first move in don’t be surprised if you get a lot of folks wanting to come by and invite you to church or a few visits from missionarys. However, as long as you let them know you’re not interested they are usually pretty gracious about it and don’t keep pestering you.

Since I grew up there, I found being a kid was a bit harder since you know how kids can be about people different than them. I grew up in a small secluded suburb and a lot of kids wouldn’t play with me. But there are always exceptions to every rule. You will find a lot of the kid’s groups (boy scouts, girl scouts) will be tied to the LDS church since it is the predominant religion in the area. Not to say that they enforce their teachings but the meetings will be held in the church centers, opening prayers and such will be in their style.

I don’t mean to sour you in any way, I made a lot of great friends, both LDS and non-LDS. My wife is even LDS. I just wanted to give you my perspective.

10

I should also say that not everyone in Provo has lived in Utah forever, though it might feel like that. There will be plenty of Mormons who aren’t really sure that they love living only with other Mormons (personally, I’d probably hate it, and I will consider it great progress in my character when I’d be willing to move to Provo) and who would be perfectly at home in NYC. You’ll even meet some Democrats, maybe! :stuck_out_tongue:

11

I’ve raced my bike in Provo and SLC for about 3 weekends of my life, so taking it for what it’s worth, I would happily move to Provo, Utah in a moment.

Sure, buying booze and dinner is a bit tricky, but is that really a huge consideration in your quality of life? It’s a relatively low cost of living, excellent access to outdoor activities, beautiful mountains, nice people (even if in a slightly creepy, always smiling fashion), and a decent infrastructure. And if you’re married, you can look but aren’t allowed to touch anyway, so I’ll just say that Mormons are perhaps inexplicably some extraordinarily good looking people on average. If not, there are still plenty of other women of less stringent moral standards around to date. Plus, the Mormons will only make the vices you do partake in twice as fun!

I wouldn’t allow the location of Provo, Utah to keep me from accepting a good position.

12

I currently live in Salt Lake City (for two years now and there’s no end to this in sight) and my sister has lived in Provo and attended BYU for the past six years. So, these are my experiences.

BYU isn’t the only thing in Provo–it’s also where the Missionary Training Center is located. This means that not only is there a strong Mormon presence because of the university, it’s also the literal hub for all the outgoing missionaries. Why there are non-Mormon students, the numbers are negligible at best. So if it bothers you to be in an unabashedly religious, conservative area, you’re not going to like Provo. It could be very startling to somebody who is accustomed to religion being a private thing, not a seemingly city-sponsored activity.

Mormons are politely distant to people who are outside their religion. Utah Mormons have paranoia down to an art form, and they don’t trust outsiders, by and large. That’s not to say they’re rude to them. They aren’t. And Provo is a large enough city that the small-town attitudes aren’t too bad (I grew up in a small town in Utah. I know all about how new “move ins” in those places are considered). The schools will not take it upon themselves to teach your children Mormon doctrine or anything of that nature. You might get a few crazy teachers, but I went through 16 years of school here, plus graduate school, plus taught in a high school, and it’s been my experience that Utah districts stick to the secular curriculum and expect their teachers to do likewise.

And don’t think that just because it’s a Mormon bastion that there isn’t any crime or drug use. There is. In fact, there’s a major problem in Utah with meth and prescription pills abuse. But that is kept very much on the DL–and no, it’s not just non-Mormons partaking.

Having said that, there are a lot of things going for Provo. For starters, it is beautiful. One of the nicest areas I’ve ever visited. The city is clean with lots of trees. There’s a downtown area with lots of shops. There are clubs, and a thriving indie music scene (my sisters goes to concerts and house shows regularly).

Don’t let the strange alcohol laws scare you away. It is a bit hard to adjust to, but ultimately, it’s not a big deal. The state run liquor stores are open every day but Sundays, holidays, and election days. Most of them are pretty large and they are well stocked. It’s not really difficult to get the alcohol you want, you just have to go to an extra store, and they’re easy to find. Private clubs want to make your life as easy as possible, which means members will “sponsor” you so you don’t have to buy a membership. We went to one in SLC a few months ago, and membership was something like $5. My husband bought one, sponsored me, and we’ll never have to buy another at that club. We went to another private club for a concert, and they just had us sign a sheet indicating we were the club’s guests (everybody in line signed it). Also, while the beer is only 3.2, there are a ton of microbreweries in Utah. So on the one hand, it’s not as strong as you’re used to. On the other hand, there are some really good microbreweries.

Salt Lake City is pretty secular, all things considered. I actually have more fun here in SLC than I did when I lived in So Cal. Sure there are a fewer concerts (which sucks), but there are plenty of clubs with smaller and independent artists. There are plenty of bars and clubs. Utah is proud of its position in the movie world due to the Sundance Festival, and there are plenty of small theaters showing interesting movies (for cheap!) and there’s also the Summer Sundance festival and the Free Concert series at the Gallivan center. There’s an amazing Farmer’s Market every week. There are festivals throughout the summer.

Park City is about an hour or so away from Provo, and it’s fun all year around, not just in the winter for the skiing. The various facilities they built for the Olympics are open to the public, too.

If you like camping, boating, skiing, hiking, rafting, or communing with nature after only an hour’s drive, you can’t beat Provo. Having said that, there’s not enough money in the world to get me to move from SLC to Provo. My sister, on the other hand, loves it. So there you go.

13

Damnit, missed the edit window. My youngest sister weighed in with her thoughts. First, everything closes on Sundays. That can be hard to adjust to. Second, the Mormons you meet and befriend will encourage you to go to church. Third, ironically, despite the fact the University is there and the MTC, there are actually very few missionaries in the city. Which means, chances are good you won’t be bothered by them in particular. If you have any specific questions, let me know. I’ll be happy to ask my sister.

14

One of the consequences of the liquor laws is the almost complete lack of fine, or even just quirky dining. High-end restaurants make a lot of their money from alcohol sales (wine, cocktails) and because so many people don’t drink and the required “club” status, it seems that Utah is devoid of fine dining. There are a few, obviously, in SLC and in the resorts, but Provo is chain city. Dining out means Olive Garden or Chili’s. I don’t know where people go on their birthdays or anniveraries. For anyone who is even a bit of a foodie, it’s jarring.

These chains can skirt the rules and serve alcohol, but only if you’re eating food at the same time. I once ordered takeout at a restaurant and it was going to be ten minutes or so so I ordered a beer at the bar, but they wouldn’t serve me even though I had ordered food already. It had to be there in front of me.

I suppose you get used to the procedures eventually, but even jst as a visitor it bothered me.

15

Oddly, for me it wouldn’t be unless I was told I couldn’t do it. Then it would become a major crisis.

16

I’ve never have that problem with restaurants, and I regularly order alcohol when I go out to eat (at chains and at independent restaurants). Also, while Provo probably is chain city, Salt Lake City and Park City most assuredly are not.
Here’s a good list of restaurants in the area, searchable by region etc.

17

My only familiarity is as a tourist/skier. I’d certainly accept a job there - although doing so I don’t think I’d expect to stay there long term. I think it would be a fabulous location to live for a few years. But as an atheist I expect the near-state religion would get to me over time.

My best friend moved out there a couple of decades ago. This guy was the most easy-going, tolerant, non-religious, apolitical guy imaginable. Within 3 years you couldn’t talk with him for 5 minutes without him going off on a rant about the “Fucking Morons!” He moved to Seattle shortly thereafter.

18

Guys and gals, great info

That is good to know, I am not sure why I thought it would be any different, just common or garden ignorance on my part I guess. The kids (2 4 and 6) school and all that jazz is my main concern.

Beer and wine, no issue there, I love wine and happily put away my required daily quota, but the restrictions are certainly a long way from world ending. I can see what Vinyl Turnip was saying though, once there is a restriction on something, it suddenly jumps up the ladder of priorities for no real reason.

Outdoors, love it, actually one the main reasons (well apart from the job) I would even consider the place over where I am now. Rugby to eh, that is even better, (I watch, don’t play)

Good to know SLC is also a viable option and commutable to Provo.

Anyway, keep the opinions coming, thanks again dudes.

19

I would disagree with that. Some of my best friends aren’t Mormon! :stuck_out_tongue: You may be correct about a lot of Mormons in Utah, but the rest of us live out in the regular world where we’re a distinct minority. If I was “politely distant” to anyone who wasn’t Mormon I wouldn’t have ever had any friends. And even Utah Mormons aren’t a monolithic population.

shrug Maybe. My friends who live in Utah mostly seem to be pretty ordinary people–and it seems to me that family neighborhoods are considerably less paranoid than most I’ve seen. My BIL and SIL in Sacramento are amusingly paranoid, but that’s just them.
The drugs and alcohol are one reason that I think it’s probably difficult to raise kids in Utah in some ways, if you’re LDS. In most places, LDS kids can easily use the old “it’s against my religion” excuse for anything they don’t want to do. In Utah, it doesn’t work–instead, it becomes cool to show off and I think there’s more pressure for a lot of kids.

20

Literally everything? (except for emergency services such as police and hospitals). Do 24-hour places like Denny’s, IHOP, and convenience stores actually close on Sunday, or do such businesses even exist in Provo? Being from Idaho you’d think I’d have been there a time or two but my travels have never taken me in that direction.