Seven experienced skiers were killed in an avalanche Monday, in BC. From all accounts, they were all very experienced skiers, and backcountry skiing is done at your own risk. My question: is it possible to SUE the mountain on behalf of the dead? Any Canadian lawyers able to advise on this?
I would also think the ski lodge that provided the helicopter trip should be liable, as well as the BC government (allowing skiing to take place underhazardous conditions).
Finally, should th survivors consider sueing the RCMP (they should have had rescuers there in time to dig them out)?
First of all having skied BC many times - usually sticking to commercial mountains such as Whistler - Skiing out there is not a sport but more of a lifestyle. I watched the coverage on Good Morning America today and all the survivors say “heck, we’ll be back out there next week”. It’s what the people that perished would have done… It’s a state of mind.
Also, there was a widow on expressing her husbands wishes, and how he would want his friends back up there. She also expressed a need for people to donate to the Canadian Avalanche Commission or some such organization.
Also, sueing the mountain is kind of a mute point because they were Heli-skiing. i.e. skiing the back country on mountains that are simply on Canadian land. Not commercial mountains. Dropped off by a helicopter to ski down these huge out of bounds mountains. It’s extreme skiing at it’s purest…
Sue a mountain? How are you going to serve it the papers? “Here you go, Mr. Mountain.”
The government didn’t “allow” this. It’s not as if the avalanche took place inside a government office building.
“Hey, Jim, did you get that report on File 7188?”
“No, Bob. Hey, want another coffee?”
rumble rumble rumble
“Sure, I… hey, what’s that rumbling?”
“I dunno. Say, do you like this new Dilbert cartoon in my cube?”
“Ha, ha, that’s funn… OH MY GOD! A WALL OF SNOW IS COMING DOWN THE AISLE!”
“Run! Run! AIEEEEEE!”
While you’d have a case in theory against the proprietors of the service - helicopter, lodge, whatever - I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that they’ve protected themselves by having the skiiers sign a waiver saying “This is really dangerous and if I get my ass killed nobody else is liable.”
Why should the RCMP be responsible to do this? It’s obviously PRACTICALLY impossible for the RCMP to have trained rescuers on every mountain, but even legally speaking, where did you get the idea that you have a legal right to be rescued by the RCMP?
This is an open-and-shut case of people getting killed because of their own actions, I’m afraid. It sucks that they died, but if you want to go skiing, you take the risk of avalanches.
This poster has GOT to be a U.S. citizen…
“At your own risk” means just that - YOU assume the risk, no one else does.
Why just sue the ski lodge? Why not the helicoptor pilot? The company that make the helicoptor? The company that made their ski-gear? The avalanche-forecasters for misjudging the severity of risk?
How about people take responsibility for their own f****** actions, huh?
“allowing skiing to occur under hazardous conditions” - REALLY! Don’t you know that skiing has inherent dangers? Even without an avalanche you can get killed or severely injured. AND regular evaluations of the avalanche hazard in such areas is made on a regular basis - the expert opinions were that it wasn’t particularly hazardous that day… which means either the evaluation was in error, we don’t know everything about avalanche risk, avalanches can occur even when the risk isn’t high, or any combination of the above. Maybe we should just outlaw skiing altogether? Anything else you want banned while you’re at it? How much freedom are proposing to give up?
As for “should have had rescuers there in time to dig them out” - um, just how long do you think you have to rescue someone in a situation like that? Some of the bodies were found under ten feet of snow. Unless you have a backhoe handy (which you wouldn’t, since it would have been swept away by the avalanche, too) you’re not going to get to them in time. Avalanche snow is NOT light and fluffy when it stops moving, it’s solid and compacted. So you have to FIND the people (no easy task if they’re entirely buried) and start digging quickly. You have maybe up to five minutes to get them out before brain damage sets in, ten before certain death. How fast can YOU dig through 10 feet of snow, buddy? Even IF the RCMP were immediately available with shovels (or - just for the heck of it - even a backhoe) there was no way they were going to get everybody found and dug out in time. Sorry, but natural disasters are like that.
Look, these folks were NOT dabbling tourists getting in over their heads. They were all highly experienced back country skiers/snowboarders. They KNEW the risk they were running. They had the latest and best gear. The bodies were found quicly because they were all wearing locator beacons just in case this sort of thing happened. They did everything right and still lost because back country skiing is an inherently risky activity. It can NOT be made as safe as a ride on a merry-go-round at Disneyland. If the participants are fully informed and still choose to take the risk… more power to 'em, I say.
I’m sorry if it crimps your view of the universe to think that everyone did the right thing and people still died, but that’s life in nature. Acts of God and natural disasters kill people, even good people who are well prepared. Some of us choose to go ahead with our lives despite the risks, others spend a lot of time trying to construct a safe nest around themselves. Either choice is valid, as long as the one group isn’t imposing themselves on the other.
Back country skiing is dangerous. The only way to prevent deaths is to prevent skiing. End of story.
There are ways to minimize risk, but it is always there. To make a human organization responsible for things like this is like making the government responsible for hurricanes or droughts, etc. Seems kind of silly to me.
If I want to risk it and I’m aware of the risks, should I be prevented from going, just because there is no way to make it perfectly safe? I think you should note that the experienced skiers and experienced guide still were unable to prevent it which demonstrates the inherent danger. By you rationale, sky diving, bungee jumping, river rafting, etc should all be eliminated since we know people are going to die doing that.
PC
People, people, people - I think ralph124c’s post was meant to be understood satirically, as a comment on compensation culture.
He knows you can’t sue a geographical feature.
Easy there broomstick. I don’t know about Canada but states in the US that have ski areas there are laws on the books that basically absolve the ski areas of all but the grossest of gross negligence. I would not be surprised to find that Canadian law had greater protection for the skiing consumer that US law does.
What is a “mute point?”
Most likelly a moot point
It used to mean something worthy of debate, but nowadays it mostly means the opposite, something that has no practical consequence.
Then shouldn’t he have posted in the pit rather than GQ?
But this was the back country- that is natural mountains, not arranged/marked/groomed “ski areas” with lifts. I would guess it’s undeveloped government owned preserves.
PC
I am sure that Selkirk Mountain Experience Skiing, the company that organized the back country ski trip, has some kind of duty to ensure that conditions are acceptable. I have seen nothing to indicate that they were negligent but it was a guided trip and guides have responsibilities to ensure the safety of those that they guide. I do agree that backcountry skiing is dangerous and people knew the risks going in. If people sue the outfitters they will have a very hard time showing that the outfitters were responsible for the deaths.
An article about the accident.
http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/5955688p-6915540c.html
I’m with you, Broomstick. Good rant. Dammit, there was a time when we were rugged individualists, assuming our own risks, and screw the consequences. “And don’t you Gubmint types come around telling ME what I can and can’t do!”
I don’t think that was always a good thing, but I sure miss it sometimes.
The OP here (and I’m sure it is satirical) is the kind of logic that leads to making things that should be my chioce now the government’s choice: seatbelts, helmets, smoking, you name it.
From what I understand, the accident did not occur on a “controlled” mountain, like a ski resort, so there is nobody to sue.
I have also heard reports last night that there were possibly skiers higher-up the mountian then the victims, and they are possibly the ones that triggered the avalanche.
Sue them, maybe? I dunno, but as been mentioned already, these people knew what they were getting into. An Avalanche risk is a very real one and they would have been very aware of it.
The accident occured in the back country, where the avalanche danger level was listed as “extreme”.
Is it exciting to ski when the avalanche danger level is listed as “extreme”? Probably. Is it a smart move? Nope. If you get killed is it anyone’s fault but your own? Nope.
And finally - you’re gonna sue the RCMP? Get real. Even if there had been trained search & rescue crews AT THE MOUNTAIN when the avalanche happened, there’s a good chance the people would have wound up dead anyway. An avalanche is essentially a huge wall of snow and ice being dumped on your head, and the one that killed these heli skiiers was HUGE. They were probably crushed by the weight of the snow, as much as they suffocated.
So, to sum up. No, there really isn’t anyone they or their families can sue. (Well, I suppose they can sue whomevery they want, there isn’t anyone that they could win against.)
And regarding Canadian law about ski resorts - they’ve got all the same disclaimers here as they do in the US. Unless there is total, complete and utter bone-headed neglegence committed by the ski hill, the skiier is responsible if they get themselves maimed.
Can we sue the OP?
“Quitcher cryin’, redhead. Sheriff Andy’s complaint just says he wants you to stop that infernal whistlin’.”
This thread is a little short of GQs.