Is he implying that it’s true or is he asking who put that out there and why? How could he be against the holocaust, the framing and killing of the Rosenbergs, but be anti-semetic about the twin towers disaster?
Is he implying that it’s true or is he asking who put that out there and why? How could he be against the holocaust, the framing and killing of the Rosenbergs, but be anti-semetic about the twin towers disaster?
EasyPhil, I’m almost positive that the poem is saying that it happened. The quote is:
It’s included in a list of oppressive actions that have been performed, ie. “Who put the Jews in ovens,” “Who thought up the Trail of Tears,” “Who decided Affirmative Action got to go.”
He didn’t say “Who said that 4000 Israelies were told…” He said “Who told 4000 Israelies…” the context of the rest of the poem and the wording certainly implies that he is stating the incident as fact.
The reason that he can “justify” putting that in with verses against the Holocaust is, as near as I can figure, poetic license. He was looking for examples of white/religious oppression throughout history, and the Holocaust is a pretty big one. Not only Jews were killed in the Holocaust, either, though they were the majority.
Basically, I think he just threw in the Hitler-supporting references as another tie-in to the “American terrorists” that he mentions in the beginning of the poem; the poetic equivelant of shock value. The “Yellow Star” thing does seem to be pretty directly in favor of Jews, but based on the rest of the poem, and his actions, doesn’t sound like it’s heart-felt so much as like it was put in out of necessity. It’s almost impossible to deny the wording of the WTC lines in the context of the rest of the poem. Also, I can speak from personal experience by saying that this guy did not seem very sympathetic towards Jews when he talked, to say the least. Does that make him an Anti-Semite? Maybe. Does putting a baseless, hate-filled rumor into a poem read at a national convention make him an asshole? Absolutely.
And chula, sure he’s entitled to his opinion, but I really don’t think that it’s valid, IMHO. What he basically said was that art has absolutely no point whatsoever if it’s not fighting something. I disagree very strongly. Art can be about something as simple as expressing beauty, or trying to capture a moment. I don’t think that that form of art can said to be “fluffy, baseless crap” just because it doesn’t rail against the powers that be. He may be a “radical,” but that doesn’t mean that his opinion automatically carries weight.
As to the name comment, I agree completely, and realized too late (read, after I posted) that I had worded it very badly. I didn’t mean that Baraka wasn’t a “real name;” it is most definitely his name. I did mean that Le Roi Jones was his original name, as you said. My apologies for not wording it better.
Jester, believe what you want to believe, it’s obvious you do.
“Criticizing the Israeli government or some Jewish people does not make you an anti-Semite.”
—But saying that 4,000 New York Jews were told to stay home on Sept. 11, knew about the attack in advance, and did not warn anyone? That’s about as anti-semitic (as as gullible) as you can get.
Plus, his poetry sucks.
Maybe not, but he also wrote in his poem “Black Art”
and his “For Tom Postell, Dead Black Poet” includes the lines:
which isn’t all that friendly, at least.
If it’s true this poem was written over a year ago, he was quoting what at the time was widely quoted and distributed even though it was inaccurate. Story Here
The anti-semitism charges are bullshit!
Only the most gullible and rabid Jew-haters believed that story when it was first set loose on the Internet. Including, it would seem, Mr. Baraka. Plus, he is still reading it, refuses to cut it from his poem or apologize for it.
Now Leroi, he’s a poet laureate
who pens some awful verse
between his fact-checking skills and his doggerel,
I can’t decide which is worse.
Well, he’s bad, bad, Leroi Jones
his line about exploding owls induces groans
anti-semite or just a lout?
William McGonagall had better look out.
According to the cite you provided, EasyPhil, you can see that the myth was widely debunked within two weeks, his poem came out four weeks after the fact. So why is he repeating it a year later? According to this link he still believes that it is true. And what’s with the “who invented AIDS?” line? Are you going to claim that’s a widely believed myth too?
Yep, I got it 
and I understand the use of both names if the first is recognizable (the person was publicly notable when using that name). I just hate when rap artists’ names in particular are not just used as is, when other actors’/artists’ “real” names are never brought up.
A vaguely related rant, that’s all, and no criticism of the title/OP.
“We hear the questions rise
In terrible flame like the whistle of a crazy dog”
And since when do dogs whistle? Mine get pretty crazy at times, but I’ve never heard any whistling.
All I can get them to do is softly hum “The Battle Hymn of The Republic”.
Yeah, but the debunking, like a retraction, does not have the power of the original inflammatory information offered up. That’s why propaganda works so well.
Oh the “who invented AIDS” myth is pretty widely believed, in addition to people believing you can get contract AIDS by kissing or simply touching somone that has it. Ignorance is wide spread. It takes a long time to dispel myths especially when widely reported.
EasyPhil, are you defending willful ignorance? He has been presented with the facts that specifically rebut his incorrect position and, despite the overwhelming and clear evidence, he still asserts these lies as facts- both for AIDS and the “4,000 Jews” story.
[sub]Who (supposedly) did invent AIDS? I thought it was the evil Dr. Yacoub, but he makes it sound like an American plot.[/sub]
So…any thoughts on Captain Amazing’s citations?
EasyPhil, you can accuse me of not listening to your argument all you want, but you sound like the one who’s already made up his mind. I, and the others posting in this thread, believe that the poem has anti-semitic overtones because:
A) The rumor that 4,000 Jews were told to stay home on 9/11 is included in the poem.
B) The poem blames the “American terrorists” for numerous atrocities against humanity. The rumor is included in that list, implying that the rumor is true.
C) The rumor is, most definitely, not true. When presented with this fact, Baraka refused to issue a retraction.
D) The quotes shown by Captain Amazing show that Baraka has flirted with anti-semitism in his poetry on numerous other occasions.
I don’t care how much “impact” it adds to the poem, the fact remains that it is a lie. It is willfully ignorant, and slanderous to a huge group of people. It’s not like the poem is only three lines long, and taking out the rumor would destroy the entire thing. It’s a very long poem, and the fact that he didn’t think he had enough atrocities in there to get the point across without including both that and the AIDS lie baffles me. It seems that he just did it to be purposefully hateful.
Not only that, but as the Poet Laureate, Baraka is supposed to represent the feelings of New Jersey as a whole through his poetry. It seems pretty apparent that he has failed, since not everybody in NJ is that willfully stupid.
So you’re right, I have already made my mind up about what I believe. But that’s because my opinion has basis. True, people believe the 4,000 Jews rumor, and the AIDS rumor, but the fact that Baraka was told that they were false, and that he’s supposed to be an educated artistic force, and still kept it in there, is not okay.
The way you’re coming across is that “It’s okay for him to use it, since some other people believe it, too.” A lot of other people believe that 9/11 was the result of God’s wrath on us for accepting homosexuals. Should that be in there, as well?
Well, if it was, Baraka’s the one to write it. From “Civil Rights Leader”, his poem about NAACP head Roy Wilkins, who decided to use the courts to challenge segregration is most famous for organizing the March on Washington:
Bakara is just, frankly, really scummy, IMHO.
Amiri Baraka: one more reason for me to move out of New Jersey.
Geez, you think you’re making a joke…truth is stranger than fiction, I suppose.
I keep liking this guy less and less.
Actually, according to my American Drama text…there is something strange going on.
Someone mentioned earlier that his first wife was white- she was also Jewish.
AL
The verse that you guys have come up with is priceless - I laughed maniacally. 