I dunno if you get how painful it is for me to defend Springs1, but she didn’t have a problem with a waiter(ESS)* coming around and asking…
It was bringing the new glass full of the newly hated beverage and WAISTING HER TIME!!11!!!
*sorry, I was editing with the caps lock on. Dunno how she switches up so easily…
Wow, that is not an OMG moment, that is an Oh my MOTHERFUCKING god moment- capitalization actually required!
Never! :eek:
Wombat wants “gesturing” instead of “interrupting my conversation” when dining out.
I really don’t see what’s wrong with an “excuse me, would you like another of whatever you’re having?”
Look, as I said before, I find this thread bizarre. I’ve never given one iota’s thought to how a glass should be re-filled in a restaurant.
I am equally happy having someone refill it without asking as I am with someone asking me as I am with the waiter gesturing to me as I am with me gesturing to the waiter.
Going into a restaurant with a checklist that you add or substract to depending on how well the peons dance for you means that you’ve got waaay too much time on your hands.
I would agree with you on never giving this one iota of thought about getting my glass filled prior to this thread. Until loosespring started spouting off I never had even thought of any issue in this regard. I guess I didn’t read InvisbleWombat as being that far out of the norm. At my favorite bar I catch my bartenders eye and hold up my empty glass and he brings me a new filled one. So I took it that way, but I guess I can see where you might get something like that out of his comment. I took it to mean that if you have a pitcher of ice tea and you come around and catch my eye or I hold up my glass that there really isn’t any need to interupt my conversation. In general I agree with this, but I certainly woudn’t hold it against the waiter if he did interupt to verify. I never got the sense that ** InvisibleWombat ** would either–but I conceed I could be wrong on that count.
what about amuses-bouche?
He said he didn’t like refills. That IS AGREEING with me.
Levdrakon said:
If he didn’t mean it, he wouldn’t have posted that, now would have he?
I NEVER ONCE said that I stiff if servers give me refills without me asking or them asking me. I said I take like a percentage point off or so depending on how many times they be inconsiderate like that. HOW do they know if they are helping or that I want their help? I don’t want their help. I want to be able to say what I want. I don’t want a strangers help unless I ask for it.
I was talking about time wasted by them getting a new glass, because normally I order soft drinks coke and dr. pepper, which normally they don’t refill your glass at the table, they get you a new glass.
I honestly wasn’t talking about tea with wasting time unless they get me a new glass.
.
I don’t raise a fuss, nor do I stiff my server for that, nor do I call a manager for something that small.
I NEVER SAID IT WAS “BAD” SERVICE. I said they should be CONSIDERATE enough to let me order for myself. It’s not bad service, just INCONSIDERATE service.
Then 25%-30% of the time then. To me, anything under 50% is RARE in my opinion, 60% or more is not rare in my mind. I just doesn’t happen very often. I made a general estimate. I don’t know exactly how many times I get refills without asking or being asked, but it’s rare is all I am saying.
Do you see where you said “RARE” occassions? Even if you start out with a coke, that doesn’t mean you want another glass of coke, maybe you might want a glass of water or even make the second drink a margarita or a beer instead just as an example.
There’s no common sense issue here, because you CAN POSSIBLY SWITCH or decide on something else(even if it’s an alcoholic drink) or even decide not to have anything else.
THAT is what common sense is that the customer CAN change things, therefore, WHY ASSUME? Common sense is that you can be wrong in your assumption that I want another coke. THAT is what common sense is.
It IS TRUE that servers are doing the ordering at times when they aren’t supposed to be. NO MANAGER says they cannot ask when they greet their customers with free bread or chips n’ salsa that they couldn’t ASK if the customer would like some BEFORE putting it on the table.
At Outback, normally they never greet you with bread(only happened once to us as far as the many, many of times we have dined there), so the server even more so has EVERY OPPORTUNITY to ASK if the customers would like some pumpernickle bread.
You don’t understand it’s not the “RESTAURANT”, it’s the SERVERS! I get what I want sometimes at let’s say Chili’s or Applebee or Outback or Red Lobster and sometimes I don’t. It’s all about the SERVER, NOT THE RESTAURANT! Can’t you get that through your thick skull or what?
It’s NOT up to ME to BABY-SIT them on everything that is common sense such as customers ordering for themselves or being a CONSIDERATE HUMAN BEING by ASKING if we want free bread or chips n’ salsa.
It is NOT often that way that servers give refills without asking or being asked. We normally get to order or accept/decline a refill offer.
What is often is places where they give you free bread or chips n’ salsa that they don’t ask you if you want it. I will give you that.
Perhaps I wasn’t clear. What I meant when I said “stick to one kind of beverage with a meal” was that if I order a drink that comes with free refills I don’t switch to another similar drink during that meal. In other words, I don’t order a Coke and then switch to Dr Pepper later.
Based on the Spring-bot’s posts, I’d be 99.999% sure she doesn’t frequent the class of restaurant that offers those.
[sub]If she did, she’d probably have an aneurysm or something.[/sub]
I’m sorry. You have to understand, my skull isn’t actually any thicker than yours on average…it’s the brow ridge that my people have and you “homo sapiens sapiens” don’t. It’s just another adaptation my people have developed to survive in the cold of Ice Age Europe.
But at any rate, if it’s the servers, then it becomes even more incumbent on you to take it up with the server when you sit down. You may say that it isn’t up to you to baby-sit them, but clearly, if you don’t, they’ll continue to do things you don’t like. You might not think that’s morally right that you should have to do that, but right or wrong, that’s the way things are. Eventually, if you go to a restaurant often enough, and you’re a good customer (both in the sense that you go there frequently and also in the sense that you’re pleasant to wait on and that you tip decently), the waiter will get to know you and learn how you like things done, and a lot of your problems will disappear. I know this might take some effort on your part to do all this, but it’ll help if you remember that the wait staff are people too, and that while they’re in a customer service industry and it’s their job to serve you food in a professional and efficient manner, they don’t actually work for you, they work for the restaurant, and that you’re just one of many customers they have to serve that day. I’ve found, in general, these sorts of interactions go better when both sides are polite to and respect the other. That, of course, is true when it comes to posting on message boards also.
I forgot this earlier, but when I was eichteen… (uh, that was a legitimate typo, but I felt I had to leave it…)
This is actually a response made on one of the reactionary boards, but I felt it might fit, and i have posted multiple times on this thread…
I just feel kinda weird…
This is the issue. When I was a server, you had to pay tax on 8% of your income. I was a horrid server, and rarely made that. I didn’t particularly care because I was a shitty waiter, but that was based on lifestyle issues. What it meant for MOST folks is that they could use the calculator (provided next to the daily time sheet) to calculate the 8% that was the required minimum and fuck off the g’mt who wanted else. The m’gmt was only concerned with the corporate bottom line, and if you reported the 8% required, you nearly always hit minimum, and if you didn’t, based on percentages, you got fired for not selling enough.
It’s not an awful thing. I wouldn’t go all Springsy on the waiter for doing that. But I prefer not to have our conversation interrupted, and I think it’s a sign of a good waiter to be able to serve without interrupting. That’s why I tip extra for it.
I would CHEW OUT the waiter for being so INCONSIDERATE as to ASK me what I wanted… Just kidding. Again, I don’t hold it against them for asking.
I guess the common usage of “stiff” is to give no tip at all. That’s not how I was using it. I consider taking off a portion of the tip for getting good, considerate service (that’s what bringing you refills is) to be pretty obnoxious, whether you call it “short-tipping” or “stiffing” or “being a twit.”
Let me see if I understand you correctly:
You’re drinking a glass of Coke. It’s almost empty. The waiter brings you another one. If you want it, life is good. If you don’t, you say, “May I switch to Dr. Pepper?” The waiter takes the Coke away and brings you Dr. Pepper instead.
I can’t see how that waiter has been anything but courteous, considerate, and worthy of a good tip. Yet you actually REDUCE the tip for that? You are simply beyond my comprehension, Springs.
Again, the waiter is being very considerate. If you were also considerate (what a concept, eh?), you’d say “no thank you” and the waiter would take away the bread. How could that possibly be “baby-sitting”? The waiter got you the bread faster by not having to make one trip to ask and another to deliver it, and if you don’t want it, you had to utter all of three words. Two if you shorten it to “no thanks.”
but think of all the wasted time
Fixed that for you.
HOW do you see that “CONSIDERATE” to WASTE SOMEONE’S TIME and NOT LET THEM ORDER? Be thoughtful would be to think “WHAT DOES THE CUSTOMER WANT, NOT WHAT DO I WANT TO GIVE THEM OR ASSUME WHAT THEY WANT?”
HOW is that “COURTEOUS” to WASTE MY TIME getting something I didn’t want and letting me down by trying to read my mind when the server guesses wrong?
It’s not nice to be PUSHY like that by giving you something without your consent. That’s rude to do such a thing. Think about it from my point of view. I will go by the example at Red Lobster that I have mentioned before. I was ready to get a refill when our waiter just starts to hand us glasses we NEVER ONCE said we wanted and NEVER GAVE US A “CHANCE” to say if we wanted something else or if we didn’t want a refill at all. Think of how I felt when I LITERALLY was just telling my husband I was going to ask for a coke, then literally less than a minute later he pops up with the refills. I was some pissed, because you see, if he would have been “THOUGHTFUL, CONSIDERATE, AND COURTEOUS” he would have came by our table to ASK for what we wanted, because he actually would have CARED* about what** WE** wanted, NOT just GUESSED and been too lazy and uncaring to come by to ask first. He wasted time that I could have had my coke faster. It takes time to make extra trips for NOTHING which is coming to our table with the wrong drink and then coming back to the table with correct drink, fill a glass with coke and ice, dump out the dr. pepper.
So tell me HOW do you see someone being “COURTEOUS” and “CONSIDERATE” that ((INTENTIONALLY)) WASTED YOUR TIME ALL BECAUSE THEY WERE TOO LAZY AND UNCARING to come to your table to ASK you FIRST BEFORE they try to decide for you something that isn’t their choice to decide?
Reducing the tip is because they aren’t letting the CUSTOMER ORDER FOR THEMSELVES as it is SUPPOSED TO BE. That’s why we get a MENU and get to pick out what WE WANT.
THEY AREN’T DRINKING IT, SO WHY SHOULD THEY HAVE ANY SAY SO IN THAT DECISION?
WHY do you think that’s nice to be let down when you wanted something else when they could have been THOUGHTFUL to come to ASK you if it was OK?
I will say it again, you should ASK your server that you want refills without being asked, because not all servers will do that. They don’t want to risk wasting their time and I don’t blame them one bit.
NO, the waiter wasn’t being considerate, because he got the guess wrong and wasted VALUABLE TIME that I COULD HAVE HAD MY COKE JUST THAT MUCH FASTER. A “THOUGHTFUL, CARING, and CONSIDERATE” waiter would have came to ASK if we wanted some refills. Think of the CUSTOMER, NOT YOURSELF! Let’s say you are thinking he’s just trying think ahead, but predicting as we all know even in the weather forecast can be wrong at times and you wouldn’t want to risk doing something for nothing when you are a server. You would want to do ONLY the work you had to, which is if you don’t have to get the refills or end up getting in my case another dr. pepper for nothing, think how pissed he probably felt at ME, when it was HIM that was the STUPID IDIOT that didn’t come to ASK first. He didn’t apologize either for wasting my time, which he SHOULD HAVE!
WHAT the heck? Telling someone “NO THANK YOU” when the server is supposed to let their CUSTOMERS DECIDE and waste my time, NO WAY! The waiter should have APOLOGIZED for OVERSTEPPING like that by ORDERING FOR ME AND WASTING MY TIME! You’ve got it the other way around.
As far as the free bread or chips n’ salsa goes, the server should be ASKING BEFORE putting it on the table if it’s something they greet you with and if it’s not required to greet you with the item such as the Outback bread, the server should be ASKING you at their greeting after the customer orders their drinks or food(appeitzer possibly) "Would you all like some bread?’
This situation with the free bread or chips n’ salsa is not as irritating, because they are coming to the table anyways to bring the soft drinks or to greet you under normal circumstances, so there’s no wasting trips there or time(maybe 2 seconds to grab the bread, but that’s neglible)
Also, when you buy a soft drink, you get free refills, meaning you are in a sense PAYING for those refills. It sure doesn’t cost the restaurant over $2 to give you a coke with ice, even if you have 4 or 5. At some stores, you can get a 2-liter of coke around $1-$1.50. My point is, in a sense, we are paying for those refills in a way, because most people don’t go through more than like 5 refills. I don’t think I have ever had more than like 4, which is when I had a small glass to have that many. I feel you should get what you want when you are paying for it and it IS something you decide to ORDER. It’s not free and not on the menu like bread and chips n’ salsa are. The biscuits at Red Lobster come with an entree, NOT if you order an appetizer, meaning, those aren’t free.
My point is, I still wouldn’t say “no thanks”, because it’s not something we ordered or asked for.
As far as soft drinks go, “no thanks” would be NO WAY I would thank someone to waste valuable time of mine bringing me an unwanted drink and making decisions that aren’t theirs to make.
Then TELL YOUR SERVER THAT! Not those exact words, but tell them you want automatic refills without asking. That way, you won’t EVER BE INTERRUPTED, EVER! WHY do you act like servers can READ MINDS?
It’s not a sign of a good waiter, because it shows how LAZY he is to make another trip to your table to ask you if it’s OK to do whatever he is going to do next for you.
It’s not a sign of a good waiter, because it shows the lack of CARING about what YOU WANT and he doesn’t know what YOU want unless you verbally communicate.
At this point in this thread, I would like to verbally communicate to YOU that I would like some of whatever it is that YOU are on. No need to ask! Just drop it off on my table.
My point was that it was “RARE” occassions that you decided on something else, even when it was after a beer that you got a coke. Still, you decided on SOMETHING ELSE! That was my point. You didn’t ALWAYS stick with the same thing. That’s one thing I hate about when you get a mixed drink, a lot of servers say “Would you like another margarita” when I order one, it’s like, they should ask “Would you like another drink?” They shouldn’t presume you always drink that. I drink all kind of drinks from margaritas, to white russians, to long island ice teas, to mia tias, etc. I don’t always have the same margarita usually either.
My point is, you can decide on something else and by coming to ask even on those rare occassions when you switch from an alcoholic beverage to a non-alcoholic beverage, you are still switching up. That was my point.
You could do it the other way and get a coke first, then get a beer. Did you EVER think about that customers CAN POSSIBLY do that? I have actually done that before, but usually when I wasn’t ready for a refill yet. I just got 2 drinks is all. Some people may not want 2 drinks, which I like it at times.