Bad tippers.

The BBQ Pit
141

I’ve also been a waiter and while your assessment here seems pretty good, there are a lot of jobs that are unpredicatble, dangerous, fast-paced and active. You could make this same list for a lineman, a police officer, an ER nurse, a firefighter or any number of other jobs. Sure, your knives may be a lineman’s live electrical wire, but the basic premise is the same.

The only basic difference is how a waiter is paid versus all of those other jobs. I’ve traveled worldwide and I would much rather pay a higher flat rate than enter some vague social contract with a complete stranger and try to assess if they did a job deserving of 13.5% or 18.5%. Let the management watch the staff and punish or fire jerks as they see fit. It probably won’t affect my bottom line any and if nothing else it will end the “$4 afternoons vs $250 weekend dinner” debate once and for all. Like all of the jobs mentioned above, waitstaff would be paid based on hours worked (sometimes earning a lot of money per customer, sometimes earning next to nothing per person), they would have an expected income and they would pay taxes on all of their earnings, just like everyone else. I don’t expect this to happen because the only people served by it are the customers, I would expect that both the restaurant and the waiters realize the best deal they could hope for is the one we’ve already got.

To say nothing of the disparity they suffer from the prices on the menu (which the waitstaff obviously don’t have any say in). Why does a mediocre waiter at a 100 dollar meal deserve 10% while the waitress busting her ass at Ihop might hope to get 20% on her 20 dollar tab? If anything, I would think that most of my money is going to the food items and the chef to cook them, since that’s the main reason to go out to a nicer dinner. No one would pay 100 dollars for Denny’s quality food, no matter how well garnished and presented it was or how many wines the server had personally tasted. That’s not the reason I go out to eat, at least.

142

I’ve never heard or seen this. And I’m married to someone from the Maritimes.

143

If I were running a restaurant, I would clearly explain our policy in the menu: “All bills will be subject to an added 18% service charge. Though it is not necessary or expected, our staff will graciously accept any additional gratuity you may choose to leave. Restaurant management will be happy to hear any comments you may have about the quality of your service.”

Server receives the entirety of service charges for all of his or her tables, less 3% of total sales as tip-out to bussers and bartender.

Because one of many great benefits to restaurant owners from the tips-as-payment system is that it encourages the staff to try to upsell cocktails from wells to calls, to move appetizers and desserts, to try to sell wine by the bottle, and all the rest of the things that mean more money for both the restaurant and for the server. Basing a service charge on the bill performs that same function.

I think many servers would like it, because it’s a steady and reliable 15%-of-sales income (after tip-out), but leaves open the possibility of making more if they’re really good. Many servers would probably hate it, because they’d think they could make more under a standard tipping system (though I suspect they’d be wrong).

Many diners would like it, because it removes the annoyance of figuring out what the appropriate percentage to tip is and then calculating it. Doing these things is not a huge deal, of course…but streamlining the process is nice. I would explain to any customer who was upset about the deal that this is how my servers are paid - they don’t receive an hourly rate, they’re essentially working on commission - and that servers are subject to performance review and discipline by restaurant management (which is true under the current tipping system, too), thus it is not necessary for the customers to mete out judgments through tips.

144

What happens if the service is poor?

145

I’ve worked at places where the gratuity is added to parties of six or more. You wouldn’t believe the shit storm raised when costumers find out they don’t have control over the tip.

146

I still can’t get my head around the claim that tips are essential to make up a living wage.
What if the kitchen has a cock-up? Now the patrons aren’t going to tip, yet it wasn’t the waiter’s fault.
This system needs changing.

What were your 15 jobs?

I’ve not been a waiter myself, but pupils at my school have worked at restaurants to raise money for University.
They tell me they had a couple of hours of training and practice, then were discreetly supervised the first day. After that they worked.
I’ve been a computer programmer (3 weeks training and 6 months supervision), a teacher (3 years training) and an international chess player (10 years study).
I can assure you that a single 7 hour game of chess in front of hundreds of spectators with a running commentary by a grandmaster is far more difficult than playing Tetris.

147

You read the whole post, that’s what happens:

People are entitled to be paid for doing work. If they do their jobs poorly, then it is the job of their employers to remedy the situation.

Car salesmen are paid on commission - but you don’t have the right, as a car buyer, to say, “Well, I don’t think the salesman did a very good job, so I’m going to pay less for the car.” You can go to the owner or manager of the dealership and complain, and then it’s the job of the manager to take steps from there.

You want to sit at a table, have someone take your order, refill your water and iced tea, be available to get you more napkins or an extra fork or whatever else you may need, clear your dishes away when you’re done with them? Fine, but you have to pay for it. Not paying the person who does the work - even if they didn’t do as good a job as you’d like - simply isn’t an option.

The idea of “controlling” a server through the tip is absurd, anyway. First off, you’re trying to punish them because they didn’t meet your standards after the fact. All they’re going to do when you leave a 10% tip is go back to the kitchen and complain to the first fellow server they encounter about the cheap bastard on table 53, then forget about it and move on to their next table. This will happen whether they were terrible and truly deserved a bad tip or they were great and you really are a cheap bastard.

If the level of service you received was truly terrible and you’re not a cheap bastard, you’re far better off asking to see the manager and explaining to the manager why you’re unhappy, because the manager will do something about it. First of all, the manager will likely comp all or a portion of the bill (depending on his or her assessment of the value of your complaint). Secondly, when the server is checking out at the end of the night, the manager will say, “Hey, that guy on 53 tonight wasn’t happy. Why is that?” and disciplinary measures for poor performance will proceed, as necessary, from there. It’s the manager’s job to deal with complaints, not the server’s job to bear the brunt of your unhappiness.

I would believe it, if I thought it were true. In all the years I waited tables, I don’t think I ever heard a shit storm over added gratuity on large parties, so long as that was clearly stated restaurant policy.

148

My policy is to NEVER tip a penny if I am forced to tip a percentage as part of the bill. You can have a disclaimer, but to me adding it means you have already evaluated the level of service for me, and apparently that is the best it gets.

I think the idea of adding a fixed percentage is totally cool… wouldn’t mind it at all- but a decent waiter would have gotten more if I hadn’t been forced to pay the fixed rate.

149

Well, you know how those theater people can be. Bunch of drama queens. :wink:

150

If I were running a restaurant, I would explain it clearly on the menu, too: No tipping.

I would pay the staff exactly the same as you would, but factor it into the prices of the food. In other words, I raise the prices 15% and pass the differences on to the servers.

I think a restaurant with a big sign saying “NO TIPPING REQUIRED: WE PAY OUR EMPLOYEES A LIVING WAGE” would be a good draw.

Three WEEKS? You mean all those years I spent studying programming languages, operating systems, data structures, control systems, embedded systems, flow control, algorithms, and math were wasted?

I guess I should have gone for the three-week programming course instead.

151

So you’re calling me a liar. Good for you. I’ve waited tables too. It’s always stated on the menu, but some people get furious over it. A lot of people like controlling the tip, despite how many people on message boards claim they’d like to do away with it.

I get that.

152

Yeah, I think a lot of people would be that way. But where I think it works out is that if you had tipped 25%, that’s well and good, but it’s balanced by the asshat the next table over who tips 5% for no good reason. Under my system, the server knows going in that they’ll get a reasonable amount of money on every single table.

And yes, I, as the owner/manager of Hypothetical’s Fine Dining, would already have evaluated the level of service as the level appropriate to and expected by both myself and Hypothetical’s customers, and if a server isn’t meeting that standard, I (and not the customer) would be the appropriate person to deal with that situation.

153

I’ve known plenty of people with this same attitude, so I understand where you’re coming from, but I’m willing to pay above the added gratuity if the waiter deserves it. Why should the server have to pay for the policy?

154

That’s exactly what I’ve seen happen. Customers will say, "I was going to tip 20%, but YOU’RE FORCING ME TO PAY 15%??? I’m not tipping anything! How dare you??? This should be against the law! Not paying!

155

No, I’m not calling you anything, and I’ll thank you not to put words in my mouth and then get indignant about it. I’m saying I’ve never seen it happen. My anecdotal evidence is as valid as yours.

156

I’ve not just seen that while working in restaurants, I’ve got two uncles who have done that while we were out to eat. Embarrassing beyond belief.

157

To clarify: I’m sure this kind of thing does happen, and I should not have implied that it never does, though I maintain that it has not occurred in my own experience. But I believe that for every 1 person who acts like this, there are ten more who don’t care.

Of course, I also believe that somebody who explicitly says, “I was going to pay 20% and I’m unhappy that you’re forcing me to pay 15%” actually means, “I’m a cheap bastard and I was going to tip 10% and I’m unhappy that you’re forcing me to pay 15%.” I think that most people who would have paid 20% will pay that automatic gratuity and then add a few bucks extra to bring it up to 20%.

158

I did, and the rest of the post did not explain it to my satisfaction, and since you needed to add 5 paragraphs, clearly you did not think so either.

In this case, you are adding an extra fee for service, over and above the amount charged for the food. Thereby, if I have a complaint about the food, I would disagree with the food charges- and a complaint about the service, I would dispute the service charge.

I have indeed disputed the commission on a car purchase. I had a bad time with one salesman, tore up the contract and when the manager came out, he gave me another salesperson who got the commission on that sale. And the manager threw in a few nice bonuses

I have indeed heard- and participated in “a shit storm over added gratuity on large parties”. We were eating at the Old Spagetti House (or something like that) in a large group of 40 for a retirement. Half the group got served quickly. The other half- with a different server- got their food 15 minutes later and the food was cold and had “set up”. Of course, this also caused issues with those who had been served on time, as it’s impolite to eat while the person next to you has nothing.

We refused to pay the add’l “clearly stated” service charge for 1/2 the bill. on site management got stuffy since it was stated, they refused to take it off. However, when we wrote the real manager, they refunded the entire service fee, and gave us a 20% off discount for our next event of more than 10.

You idea is a bad one. If you wanted service to be non-debatable, then just add it into the price and state “Gratutity is included in the price”.

159

Quite likely. I’ve seen all sorts of amateur scam artists in restaurants. Eat three quarters of the steak, then claim it was cooked wrong and not paying. Get me another.
:rolleyes: Like that’s the first time I’ve seen that trick.

160

All I can say is that it sounds to me, based on limited details, more like a kitchen issue than a service issue (though I could certainly be wrong), and that I’m glad I never had to wait on you.