So the ban is a quid pro quo for the Republicans in the House who refused to back Trump’s wall unless he did it.
The cost of surgery is a big concern. Gender reassignment is a long drawn out process. Requiring time off for recuperation after each surgery. Long term pharmacy bills.
Taxpayers shouldn’t be expected to foot the bill for soldiers elective, cosmetic surgeries. Boob jobs, gender reassignment, butt implants, nose jobs, or other similar procedures.
The solution is to make it clear when people enlist that kind of medical care isn’t provided in military hospitals unless it’s part of reconstructive surgery after an injury.
They can, of course get it done at civilian hospitals and pay for it themselves.
The US military spends more on Viagra than it ever would on reassignment surgery. Perhaps THAT figure should be more closely examined first.
The estimates run from 2-8.4 million total.
That’s 1 dollar out of every 75,000 in the military budget.
Trump spends 2 million on each of his weekly vacations he promised not to take.
Let’s not forget the several campaign rallies he’s held.
Let’s not pretend it’s the money.
Why is it that trans re-assignment is the cats pajama’s but conversion therapy is poo poo? And why should even one tax dollar pay for ANY of it?
I would be much more in favor in general but as a vet, I do not want a transgender covering my back until they prove that they can/will. How many are in actual combat positions, on the ground that regularly engage in close quarters combat? I have never seen any stats. 2-3 famous ones does not a good argument make. And they changed after service.
Do they volunteer for it? Any woman is equal to any man in an infantry unit? There are some but since I do not get a choice, that is reserved for the person who is not effected, I don’t/won’t go out with just anybody.
When I enlisted, there was still a draft, I am old, so I ask, any of you fussing about this willing to be an infantry soldier for this country? If not why not, if you are past fighting age why did you not back then?
If you are not willing to actually fight and risk getting shot yourself, IMO you have no right to tell me who I must have beside me.
You all have a right to your opinions but you do not have the right abuse me with your insinuations except by internet anonymity.
No thing is too hard or dangerous for those unwilling to do it.
Out
Conversion therapy is attempting to change a person’s self-identity. Re-assignment surgery is to match the body to how the person identity.
Why shouldn’t it be paid for? A transgender person is volunteering to serve the country, not to get surgery. And right now, there’s a good chance of winding up in combat.
Not all transgender persons actually get surgery.
And how do they prove that? Why do you think they’re less able to cover your back? Maybe the reason there’s no stats is because they’re forced to keep quiet. How do know who was transgender when you served? How do you know your back wasn’t covered?
I’m appalled. They volunteer to put themselves in harms way for you and the country and yet you think you can dictate what benefits they get?
Do you not consider their service the equal of yours?
So you claim none make good soldiers except the ones that are so they don’t count.
Transgender is about self-identity, not physical appearance or capability.
Surgery does not make a person transgender.
How many iterations of this does one have to go through before they decide “you know what, I’m not going to assume that someone is less capable, less brave, etc., just because they’re different”? Some old veterans didn’t think black people would support them in combat. They were wrong. Some other vets didn’t think Asian Americans, or Muslim Americans, could. They were wrong. Others didn’t think gay Americans could. They were wrong.
Doesn’t experience show you that people from any group are capable of being good soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines? That’s what history and experience shows me. There’s been no group that’s been added to the military that we later decided “oh, turns out they suck, so we need to kick them out again”. They all work out, and the military adapts to all of them.
I am far more concerned with someone’s ability to do the job than their gender identity/which bathroom they use.
If an individual has signed up for unlimited liability and achieved the standard, I am happy to have them on my six.
My wife and I talked at length this morning.
Trump mishandled this exactly the same way as the initial Travel ban in Feb. He just threw it out there. His own staff didn’t know anything. There were no details of how it would work. Total mass confusion for several days.
Now he’s pulled the same shit with Trans people serving in the military. No details at all. No one knows what happens next There’s mass confusion and many servicemen’s careers are hanging in the balance.
Let’s hope the courts can act and issue an injunction like they did in Feb. Policy can’t be changed without careful planning.
I know it’s been said before. Congress will have to do something about Trump. The country can’t wait until 2020.
The Joint Chiefs of Staff were blindsided.
Even the Conservatives are shocked.
Glad we agree that Loser Donald had no right to ban transgendered folks from serving. :rolleyes:
Question, how will he know who is transgender? How do they know who the gay people are? How can he throw out those he does not know are there?
Do you all go around yelling these things? Why not? ( Maybe because the world is not totally fair yet ya think? )
How many squads today are composed of totally accepting of every color, gender or other alphabet type that you can go into openly declaring your status and expect everyone else to be OK with it? ( seems you want instant perfection in all people in relation to your particular personality or condition )
So why did you have to hide in plain sight? ( because the world is not fair maybe ) And now you are screaming about something that was tried before and did not work nor can it work today using the same trick of keeping your mouth shut that worked back then?
Every person in the military learns to keep their mouth shut about some stuff in some situations. If you don’t the ride gets real rough.
You are screaming about it like it is a done deal and they have secret satellites that can see it all and every one will be scanned with it? Bawahahaha
I did not say that anyone was incapable of being a fighter, courageous or anything else, I said I look at them as I look at all my squad that will be where I am. I did not say I did not only look at the ones like you. I watch everyone and I bet the smart ones are watching me also until things get proven to me/them. If they don’t, they are stupid IMO
But you want to be able to be ‘out’ and automatically be considered as good as the best with no proof No where in nature is different automatically given a free pass and even the arrogant humans have been unable to educate bias or fear or any long held belief but the majority in one or two generations. Some have tried that and there was major wars. So what makes you special snowflakes that you claim to be great soldiers need no demonstration of same. I am just a generic human and I had to prove myself. Again I ask, why do you not have to?
I never said I agreed with the President but you all jumped to that. And I should trust you?
I am old and I don’t matter anymore but I have seen a bit here and there and this wild screaming you all are doing is not helping with those that could change their position and it would do some good. Good thing you are all smarter than I and know that anything I know can not be correct because you can not possibly going at it wrong.
I do not think the sky is going to fall but you are sure trying to make it so by your actions. Good luck with that.
No, merely to be given a chance to be as good or bad as each of them is at the job itself, without having to hide who they are.
The interesting thing about this is how you managed to spin support for soldiers and veterans who are transgender, into somehow being against soldiers and veterans.
Also interesting how you jump straight to the question of whether transgender troops would have your back, when it’s self evident from your post that you would not have theirs.
It’s up to you if you want to pick and choose which service members deserve your support. But you should recognize that, if you make that choice, you don’t get to criticize the rest of us for supporting everyone in uniform, not just the ones who are the right kind of person.
Seeing as how the generals and military experts 45 claimed he’d consulted had no idea what he was talking about, how much actual legal weight does some random tweet from this individual have? Does he think he can actually make declarations out of thin air and have them become the law of the land, like some kind of king? Or is this just another version of ‘don’t look at that, look at THIS!’?
Well, the people who would implement this policy have said they’re not going to act on the basis of a tweet, and it’s doubtful they’re at risk of being court-martialed: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/27/trump-transgender-military-ban-no-modification-241029
And once again all miss the point.
I do not think I can change anything but I do note that some want to be able to be totally out and all the other soldiers must accept them and allow them to try? How long have the US people been working on segregation? How is that going for you? The laws accomplish it?
And many thousands of soldiers much less the general public have religious beliefs that you want wiped out this month. How do you plan on doing this, with a law? Bawahahahaha
Yes, it sucks to be you, it sucks to be handicapped, it sucks if you are a lot of things, it really isn’t fair. So what is your plan to make it fair?
Those that did not read about my age, where I come from and my disclaimer and just start jerking their jaw into their face are the very ones who will get you killed on the battle field. Note, I said nothing about non combat positions.
Their are female combat pilots that are very good.
They can not pass the buck, pilots don’t get to say that it is someone else’s fault. Right or wrong but right now. I have over 10,000 hrs as PIC so I am sure you will say that I do not know what I am talking about. snerk
Why don’t they go public and join you all?
Quit wasting your time as someone suggested about talking to me.
A little side bet, when this all come to nothing, not a one of you will say you were wrong to go super nova about.
Never seen it on a message board when it is about opinions their ‘hot button’ issues and/or judgement calls. Some scientific types won’t admit they were wrong no matter the proof.
I may drop by to see how this goes in the thread but I better not post, that would be silly of me and I try not to do that.