On Saturday I was at the WHFESTIVAL and there was a banner plane flying around the stadium.
At one point it started to rain and get windy, but the plane didn’t deviate from the oval course it was flying. What I want to know is
How dangerous is it for a plane towing a banner to be flying in weather like that
How does a pilot keep the plane so steady when on a commecial flight i have encountered turblence when there is no bad weather.
Perhpas Broomstick can answer both for me
Some real quick answers…
How “bad” the weather was might vary based on who you were asking. While a few raindrops and 15 mph of wind might feel really bad to you on the ground, that is nothing to be concerned about while flying (or landing). So if you could see the airplane the entire time the ceiling was fairly high, the visibility was pretty good (at least a couple of miles, probably more), and the rain wasn’t that heavy. Heck, I’d love to fly in weather that good every day!
As for keeping it steady, remember the frame of reference. When looking at an airplane moving acros the sky it will seem stable to you. The airplane might be getting bumped around like crazy, but would you be able to see a 5-foot drop in altitude from a mile away? My money is on no. But if you were in the airplane, you feel every bump. If you can, try this experiment the next time you fly and have a bumpy ride in (especially on approach): after landing, get somewhere on the airport where you can watch airplanes landing. Look at them, and see how little they “bump around” in your vision and compare that to the ride you just had on the way in. I think you’ll be surprised at how constant an airplane’s flight path really is.
Finally, about turbulence. Turbulence can be caused my many things, not all of which require clouds, rain or thunder. Different rates of heating and/or cooling on the ground can cause low-level turbulence. Strong winds cause most of turbulence you feel while crusing on an airliner. Mountain wave turbulence can literally tear an airplane apart (and has done so in the past). All of these types of turbulence can happen on a clear, sunny day (i.e. no bad weather).
Others can be more descriptive but I’m limited by time. Hope this helps!
I am not a banner tow pilot, but I have talked to a few.
First of all, there’s an inherent risk in banner towing to begin with. Probably the most risky part of the flight is when they pick up the banner. They don’t take off with it attached, as you might suppose.
Before taking off, they unroll the banner next to the runway. One end of the banner has a sort of rope or cable attachment/harness, which they suspend from two poles a few feet above the ground. Then they get in the airplane, take off, circle around, and use a tailhook to grab the banner and pull it aloft. If they misjudge during this manuver the result can be the banner doesn’t take off and the airplane slams flat into the ground with dire results. This is why some folks don’t care to watch banners being towed aloft and everyone gives them a wide berth. It doesn’t happen too often, but when it does it can be spectacular.
The big danger isn’t wind or turbulence. As pilot141 pointed out, that airplane can be bouncing all over the place from the cockpit perspective but from where you’re watching you probably won’t note anything amiss. And pilots routinely experience and deal with much more turbulence than your average non-pilot passenger would consider acceptable. As long as there’s nothing around to hit, you aren’t puking, and you can still steer the airplane where you want to go it’s tolerable. Not a whole lot of fun, and dealing with it can wear you out, but hey, if the job was all fun they wouldn’t have to pay people to do this, right?
The big danger in a rain storm is the banner getting soaked, which adds to the weight of it. A lot depends on both the size of the airplane and the size of the banner. A small engine can only tow so large a banner, so added weight might become a problem quicker than it would for a larger engine towing the same size banner. Tow planes for this work frequently have larger motors added, and the airplane itself is stripped to reduce weight - so frequently you’ll have just one seat, maybe just a primer coat instead of primer and paint, minimal radios and navigation equipment, and so forth. In fact, the two towplanes at my current field don’t even have electrical systems - they have to be handpropped because there’s no starter and the radio is a handheld portable transceiver velcroed to the yoke. I don’t know how they handle the transponder requirement when flying over Chicago - maybe they have a battery operated one of those, too, or maybe they have some sort of waiver, maybe I’ll ask next time I get a chance. The main point here is that these guys are serious about weight reduction.
So, what happens if the banner gets so wet and heavy it becomes a problem? The first thing the pilot will likely notice is that he’s having trouble maintaining altitude. In which case he can fly off to a suitable field or parking lot and drop the banner there by pulling a lever in the cockpit that releases it. The banner then flutters (or flops) to the ground. This is, actually, what they normally do prior to landing anyhow, it’s just that in the case we’re discussing the pilot will then have to go and retrieve the dropped banner. It’s also his/her responsibility to make sure that the drop is done safely, without injuring people or damaging property on the ground. Any damage done the pilot is liable for.
Thank you both. I was assuming that if the plane’s altitude dropped the banner would not be steady and I would be able to see some kind of ripple effect on the banner.
That’s really interesting!
Do you know why, if these planes are going to be customized anyway, they don’t just roll the banner up and deploy it out the back through a hatch or something when airborne?
Too much of a jerk when shoved out? Perhaps these banners are bigger and bulkier than I imagine?
Wow! That is drastic. I’m wondering, kinda like Nanoda, just how much these banners weigh. But I suppose, it ain’t necessarily the mass the banner adds to the total mass the plane has to keep aloft, but the additional drag. Is that correct?
I need to check my pilot’s regs manual when I get home, but there is probably just a rule against doing that. Also, a plane with a tailhook is a heckuva lot simpler (and presumably lighter) than a plane with a hatch in the back which the banner can be deployed through. You would also have to mess with a system for unrolling the thing, getting it out the back of the plane to begin with (assuming that the pilot is busy piloting the plane, etc.)
IANAP(ilot) but I did take some classes on the subject of flying.
You can see a ripple sometimes - if you’re close enough. When the banner is initially pulled into the air, for instance, there may be a ripple but it has a low amplitude and high frequency (meaning you see a whole lot of teeny ripples traveling down the banner at the same time). There can also be a rustling or rippling noise at that point, but it stabilizes very quickly, and you’d have to be within a couple hundred feet of it, if not closer, which isn’t going to happen except at take-off and landing because the plane flies higher than that.
The combination of airspeed and drag tends to keep the banner stable, although particularly light ones might have a weight system on the trailing edge to help. If you think about it, the folks advertising don’t want ripples, it makes the banner harder to read. Some banners have slits or a pattern of small holes cut into them as well which, again, you won’t see unless you’re very close.
The banners vary considerably in size and material. Smaller banners can be easily lifted and handled by one person, larger ones require two strong men. To my best recollection, I’ve heard weights between 80 and 300 lbs for various banners. Weight is important - an airplane can only tow so much and trying to tow something larger could have truly serious consequences. Nor is it solely a matter of weight - I’ve been in a 1,000+ pound glider towed aloft by an airplane with a smaller engine than some banner towers use with no problem, but a gilder has MUCH less drag than a banner. I won’t attempt to discuss this part of the operation further because I simply don’t know any more than what I’ve already said. In order to tow a banner legally a pilot is required to have training specific to that task, for good reason.
The jerk is a factor, but not as much as you think. When a tow-plane hooks a banner weighing a couple hundred pounds and pulls it up into the air it visibly slows down, and rather quickly. There is definitely a jerk. Likewise, when I was sitting in that glider there was a definite jerk when we launched, and I can only assume the guy towing us felt it, too. It’s not a terrible jerk, but you notice it.
I think there are several reasons for using the tailhook. First of all, I’ve yet to see an airplane specifically designed for towing banners (or anything else for that matter). They are stock, factory built planes that have been modified. And it’s a heck of a lot easier to attach a hook to the tail - where usually airplanes already have a strong point used to tie the airplane down in high winds and such - than to cut a hatch. Airplane tails are vital to controlled flight, having two major steering devices: rudder and elevator. The rear part of the fuselage acts as a lever. It’s sort of important not to mess any part of that up, and cutting a hatch certainly would pose some problems, what with control cables and stuff running through there and, oh yes, you’d probably have to reinforce around the edges, and… well, it’s NOT a simple problem at all. So I expect folks will keep on with the tailhooks.
Look at this way - the navy uses tailhooks on the planes and the arresting cable on the aircraft carrier, they don’t shoot a cable out the back of their jets. And the navy has a LOT more money to spend on these systems than banner towers do.
Then there’s the problem that these airplanes only seat one, and don’t have autopilots - of course not, they add weight. The pilot needs to be up front flying, not in the back fooling around with the banner. That’s also why the release level is up front - so the pilot can use it without undue distraction from flying, and without having to leave his seat.
That is correct - see my earlier reference to being towed in a glider. Gliders weigh much more than banners, but are easier to tow because they offer less air resistance.
They strip the tow planes for this work because every pound of unnecessary weight they take out of the airplane is one more pound of banner, or fuel, or safety margin. It’s nothing unusual for the engines to lack cowling and be exposed to the elements. It not only saves weight, but provides better cooling for engines that will be run hard for hours at a time at relatively slow speeds. Many of them don’t have navigation lights - those are the red and green wingtip lights (so they won’t be flying at night, but so what? No one could read a banner in the dark anyway). I’ve seen them with the regular seats removed and just a fabric sling seat for the pilot. They remove windows. Doors. Maybe put in bigger fuel tanks, though, so they can stay aloft longer.
Such airplanes, by the way, have the word “restricted” next to their ID number - these planes can be flown for only two purposes: towing banners, or moving a towplane from one place to another to either get to another job or to have mechanical work performed on them. No passengers. No pleasure flying. I presume there are limited number of towplanes that can carry two people, for training purposes, but ONLY tow plane training. Theses are airplanes intended strictly for one purpose and one purpose alone.
Nope, there isn’t. The only rule about shoving stuff out of airplanes is to make sure you won’t damage anything or hurt anyone on the ground.
The FAA also frowns on you scaring people on the ground, even if you don’t physically hurt them. They were, shall we say, a trifle upset about the recent lost airplane that caused such consternation in Washington DC even if no one got hurt. As were the FBI and the secret service. But I digress…
Some of us weekend warriors occassionally amuse ourselves by dropping bags of flour or bean bags or similar items out of airplanes in an attempt to hit a target on the ground, but we generally confine such activities to airports or private land, seek prior permission, and if it seems advisable, warn the neighbors ahead of time (frequently, we also offer them free food - hey! come get your hotdogs and fried chicken and watch the small airplanes fly by!)
Yes, indeed.
Very informative - and interesting, Broomstick. I would never have guessed there were such highly specialized planes for something that seemed so mundane as banner towing.
Thanks a lot.
If a stowed banner were released to unfurl in flight, it might tangle and produce a knot with excessive drag, even if not an aerodynamic problem this defeats the purpose of the banner.
The pilot would have to drop the banner, land, recover it, inspect it for damage, re-furl it etc.
The pilot would need a ground spotter to verify the banner deployed correctly if the airplane had no rearward visibility (many don’t). With existing practice, the pilot could work alone, as the poles holding the catch line could be fixed before take off.