But this is not America.
We are talking about France (and more EU countries) that has considerable problems with Muslims (#notall) not integrating into the native culture.
Wearing a swastika is a statement. Wearing a burqa, or the beard and robes, is also seen as a statement that you belong to that section of the muslim community that does not want to integrate. That you are at least supportive of Islam’s radical ideas, if not hold them yourself.
Amongst which is offing gays.
So, yes I can see why Levdrakon would be “triggered”.
So, no iiandyiii the burqa is not equivalent to the yellow star. It is equivalent to the brown shirt and riding boots.
I think this is factually bullshit, and further, even if any part of it is true, I think banning such garb makes these folks less likely to integrate, rather than more likely. Clothing doesn’t hurt people. Bad behavior ought to be sanctioned, not clothing.
As for levdrakon’s triggering, I won’t dispute it – he has the right to feel anything he wants. I certainly have no issue with anyone feeling that the burqa is restrictive or that Muslims are more likely to be hostile to gay rights.
You think wrong then. Sorry, but that happens sometimes.
I agree in so far that I’m not sure if an actual ban is very useful.
Certainly not in makng certain people want to integrate.
But then, if they don’t want to adapt to their adoptive country, they can always leave, right?
Maybe move to Sweden.
They KILL them. Brutally.
You’re still not getting that part, apparently.
Who? All Muslims? Some? How many? Why paint with such a broad brush and tar more than a billion people? According to polling, American Muslims are more in favor of gay rights than Evangelical Christians and Mormons. The gay people I’ve spoken to (in the US) are far more worried about violence from anti-gay Christians than from Muslims.
Got it – you think Muslims are Nazis. I’m not sure what else we can discuss on this, considering the different planets we appear to live on. I do wonder why you think that American Muslims are so tolerant – do we just attract the best, or could it be perhaps that America has been more welcoming of immigrants, leading to better outcomes?
I agree about “radical Islam” (though I might not be as worried about the scope as you) – just not “Islam”. The one is a subset of the other. Equating the entirety of the second with the first helps radicals and ISIL, since for them to win, they need all Muslims to be on their side and to see the West as the enemy of Islam. I want to beat the radicals, and the best strategy to do that is to make sure that most Muslims see Western Values as compatible with their lifestyle and religion and prefer to live in peace and prosperity.
In essence, there are two sides of this – the “religious war” side, and the “tolerance and peace” side. ISIL and those who want to expel all Muslims from European countries, or register Muslims, or otherwise antagonize Muslims, are on the same side – they both want a clash of civilizations.
Just like the guy who went on a shooting spree of cops in Dallas and Dylan Roof (the white supremacist who shot up a black church in South Carolina) are both on the same side – the “race war” side.
Or could it be in areas were separation of church and state is most strongly enforced people are more likely to accept or at least abide by the legal concept of not interfering with their neighbors right to worship as long as he or she does not interfere with theirs?
Oh wonderful the usual ignorant repititions of the bigotted and prejudiced lies about the French muslim population and the repitition of the French discrimination justifications from whose real foundation is religious hatred.
Of course it is so prfoundly tied to ‘secularism’ that the private beach clothes that look no different than the suits of the surfers for chilly waters… of course it cannot be the pure religious hatred dressing itself up in
And of course to protect the Muslim women, it is so important to impose your ideas of the proper clothing in the supposed concern for their well being that is invented to give a façade of ‘progressive’ justification to a bigotry, this requires immediate action, but action on the severe, and decades longdiscrimination in the job market to anyone not having the “right” name / skin color(that is the French catholic name, of course no religion there) - and we speak of FRENCH born, not of immigration. This requires no action at all. only decades of pious condemnations with no action of the ‘regretable’ nature of the discrimination.
Oh yes and of course one must add the blind discourse about “immigrants” when in fact one is actually talking about the people born 2 and 3 generations in the France, but who happen to have the wrong color and the wrong religion - queerly it is that the secularims is “blind” to active discrimination…
No it is more important to attack the muslims as evil, like the Nazis equating simply the pious garmets like the uniforms of … Indeed this is the route to integration, to allow decades of gross discrimination and to only take the proactive action to supress the minority culture and in a nasty form of the hypcrosy for the nazi collaborationist rooted far right, insinuate the religious minority are in some way equatable with the nazis - for a population whose Maghrebine ancestors sent more soldiers to die for the Free France than the “pure blood” French against the nazis.
Oh yes, I am so convinced they are so interested in the rights and the freedoms of the French Muslim women, they care so deeply for us… it shows in the actions of course
Of course severe, continued dsicrimination against them and one sided actions does so much to promote the positive secularism among the religious minority whose 3rd generation remains the “dirty immigrant arab”
FWIW, I agree with the last part. And more than that, at this time Muslims in the US are more concerned about whether they themselves are being tolerated here and are not self-confident enough to start being intolerant of others. But I would expect a move in that direction over time, if present trends continue.
Not that this has a bearing on whether anyone should be banned from wearing burkinis or whatever else.
I think if those things are kept constant and the only change is that American Muslims become more secure as to their place in American society, then they will become less tolerant.
If they become more secure etc. but also become more assimilated culturally and religiously, then that would not hold. But if present trends continue as to the latter, then the former will result in them becoming less tolerant in the future.
JMHO. We’re none of us prophets, but that’s how I see it.
With that in mind, do you think Muslim women (or any woman for that matter) who wish to wear more coverings at the beach would simply be allowed to skirt around this law by wearing superhero themed outfits? I can picture it now. “It’s not a burkini I’m a fan of Bat Woman! Can’t you tell by my logo, officer?”
