In our argument last night what you said really bothered me, and I couldn’t quite put my finger on why until this morning.
You said that you think it is sad and pathetic for a little girl to fantasize about her wedding day.
You said that by dreaming of getting married they perpetuate the “barefoot in the kitchen” culture and that the little girls are wasting their time dreaming of a day that will never reach the potential it has in their minds. They could be spending their time dreaming of becoming an astronaut.
I tried to explain that little girls see a wedding as their chance to be a fairy princess. They see these images on TV, in books, everywhere they look of beautiful women dressed in fantastic dresses and they want to play dress up too. It is perfectly natural for a little girl to play wedding.
You refused to see why anyone would be anticipating such an arbitrary event.
And yet you proposed to me.:dubious:
Then as I was getting ready for work I realized what my issue was with what you were saying.
You were saying that a girl who spends her childhood playing “mommy” with her dolls and dreaming about the day when she could get married and have her own family isn’t living up to her full potential.
I was raised by a feminist mother. One who supported my dreams no matter what they were. And I can wholeheartedly say that I would support a daughter just as much in a dream to become a stay at home mom as I would if she wanted to become a doctor. Feminism is not about breaking the “barefoot in the kitchen” stereotype. It is about giving women the choice to stay at home or not.
IMHO being a wife and mother it is just as valid a career choice as any other.
*Ludy - who was a little girl that dreamed of being a move stuntman
I know many people who believe as your fiancée does, and it pisses me off for the same reasons you mention.
I have a friend who has a BS in Biology, and works right now at a national laboratory doing her thing and making plenty of money. However, she has every intention of being a SAHM when she and her husband have children. She’s planned this since we were in college together, and she was wiping the floor with entire classes, grade-wise. People would lament that such a smart woman was going to be “wasting herself” on raising kids.
Now, I don’t want kids myself, but I can’t fathom this as wasteful. Frankly, I think it’s for the best that smart people raise kids.
I don’t understand the people who don’t see it as being about choice.
As for your fiancée, does he think dreams are finite? If a little girl dreams about her wedding day, she can’t also dream of being an astronaut? Maybe she dreams about her wedding day… IN SPACE!
I doubt most little girls dream about their wedding exclusively, without also having other dreams. I thought about it plenty when I was a kid, mostly because it seemed – like you said – a chance to dress up and play fairy princess. I also dreamed about stuff like graduation and prom because I have a thing for rites of passage.
And just think: if a girl grows up dreaming of being an astronaut, one day she can grow up to obsess over one of her fellow astronauts and abandon her actual husband and three kids in an attempt to murder her rival (yet another female astronaut!). Because even if you’re an astronaut, in the end it’s all about boys.
Anyway, don’t have kids with that guy until he grows up a lot.
It’s clear that your fiancé was being overly harsh, but I did kind of have that gripe with my wife before we got married. But not for the “barefoot” reasons, but this: “Why,” I would ask, “are you basing the occurrence of something so life-changing and important, on a fantasy that occurred to you when you were a seven-year-old child? Would you apply the same to a career choice?”
It didn’t go down well, so I stopped. And we got married and it was fine.
Mechanical engineer here, with an MBA in High-Tech Management; 11 years in a larger telecom manufacturer as a tech support guy, enginner, then product manager.
Now stay at home Dad. Never been happier, never been more sure I’m doing what’s right for me. I really feel sorry for the guys stuck back at work on those conference calls when I’m out toboganning with tru-squirt. Those poor bastards…
You have to decide wich potentials you want to maximise: earning potential, status potential, physical fitness potential, intellectual potential, happines potential, wisdom potential, spiritual potential? You can’t focus on all of them.
What if she wanted to become a missionary, a social worker in a prison, a nurse in a leper hospice in Calcuta? a pastor? a day-care worker? Would that be wasting her potential too?
When you become a parent, you change, how you see the world changes, what’s important, and not, changes.
Not sure how relevant it is to your OP, but I (and my wife) don’t really understand the point of view where couples - most often brides - think weddings should be such a celebration of them. And we find the money and effort that goes into elaborate weddings obscene and disgusting. Yes, throw yourselves a nice party if you wish. But this whole “fairy pricess” thing just seems like a delusion - as well as an imposition on everyone else involved.
Sorry - I don’t think I phrased that too well. Hope everything works out with you 2.
It’s not so much a “Fairy Princess” thing as much as two lists that are always in the back of our minds. These lists are titled “Good Idea” and “Hell No”. Every time we try on a formal dress, every time we are a bridesmaid or flower girl, hell every time we ATTEND a wedding, we add to the lists. If we decide to marry, then the lists are further refined. Big or small; BBQ or hors d’oeuvres; Vegas or church. Each woman is different. I think it’s just part of thinking about **all ** the possibilities.
We also have lists labeled “Careers”, “Cute Stuff”, “Baby Names”, “Sexy”, “Gross”, “Fears”, and “Shoes”.
My fiancee agrees 100% with you. She has absolutely no desire to be a “fairy princess” and thinks that whole notion is ridiculous. She also never played dress-up as a bride as a kid, although she willfully admits to sticking cotton balls on her face using vaseline so she could pretend to be an elf. (Santa kind not LOTR kind).
For her, the marriage is what she wants, she doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the wedding and would happily do without. Thank the Spaghetti Monster that we’re having a really long engagement, because we’re trying to figure out how to accommodate everyone with class but without the pageantry.
I should clarify that I was not one of those girls wanting to get married. I have no desire for kids, but I have nothing but respect for those that do.
I want to get married now that I am engaged but I don’t want a big hurrah of a wedding. The ceremony means nothing to me, I just really want the two families to meet.
Man our families will be hilarious drunk together I can hardly wait.
I do find it vaguely pathetic when young women dream about their weddings to the extent that they have wedding favours, themes, dresses, and reception menus already picked out. The groom seems almost incidental.
I’m all for women choosing how to live their lives, whether as housewives or psycho astronauts. But I have to admit something about young girls dreaming about their wedding day just oogs me out (which is stupid given that when I was a young girl I fantasised about being a rainbow-coloured horse). I feel that it feeds in to the belief that My wedding is the MOST IMPORTANT day of my life and everything had better be perfect, and everyone had better do exactly what I want, and Groom had better stop complaining about the cost and just stand there and smile because it’s my special daaaaaay!
And of course, the huge risk there is that the real-life wedding will never be able to live up to the fantasy amd tears will flow (and not the happy-sappy kind).
In marriage, you show up, give her a ring, and your work is done for a year. Then you spend a LOT of money to feed other people (many of whom you’ll never see again), on a day you won’t remember.
In childbirth, the guy shows up, gives her, uh, ‘a ring’, and his work is done for 9-10 months, at which point you show up, drive her to the hospital and spend a LOT of money to other people (many of whom you’ll never see again), on a day you won’t remember.
Where you go from there determines if, as a guy, you regret the experience(s) or not.
This is why I’m a little leery of young women or girls who have “always dreamed about their wedding day”. The most (and, arguably, only) important thing on your wedding day should be that you’re getting married to someone you love, not whether you look like a fairy princess or what the wedding favors are.
That, and people like that were useless for me to bitch to when I got sick of dealing with wedding planning (about the time I started getting into the details of it).
Now that I understand. In fact, Mr. Neville and I didn’t smash cake in each other’s faces at our wedding because, when I was seven, my mom told me about a couple who did that, and I remember thinking, “I’m more mature than that.” I’m not sure I would call that the same thing as “always dreaming about your wedding,” though.
My wedding was definitely not the most important day of my life, or even the happiest. In fact, it was the worst day of my marriage- it’s all gotten better from there. It helps that I have social anxiety, and hate being the center of attention, though…
I think people place way too much importance on wedding ceremonies. It’s all such meaningless fluff in the grand scheme of things. The decision to get married is an important decision, but the ceremony itself is of trivial significance at best. It’s the least important day of a marriage.
Amen. We were married at a flippin’ courthouse, but I will never, ever forget the moment when we looked into each other’s eyes and said “I do.” And what else matters?
No one’s said the word Bridezilla yet, but reading this recalled an IMHO thread from last year, in which a Doper was treated quite rudely by a member of a wedding party. Granted, that was a bridesmaid, not the bride herself, but it makes me wonder.
Is being a demanding, emotionally unstable drama queen who alienates people, sometimes permanently, part of the fairy princess mythos? Somehow I think not. I remember when Hugh Jackman was promoting Kate and Leopold (yes, I’m going somewhere with this) and talking about the coaching he’d gotten from an etiquette expert, so he could convincingly play a nineteeth-century duke, or whatever his character was. I forget his exact words, but he said it boiled down to “Elegance was all about making everything look effortless.” And presumably, that necessitated never losing your cool.
So what’s elegant about barking orders at your attendants and having crying fits and sneering at the gifts people give you out of the goodness of their hearts? I don’t believe seven-year-olds dream of the day when they get to be Queen Bitch with no (immediate) consequences. (Do they?)
And that’s just the problem. You aren’t a fairy princess, and a wedding is nothing to play at. I tend to think your fiancee has a more realistic view of the situation. It’s downright creepy to me that girls are encouraged to want to ‘play’ at this type of situation or that women who aren’t even in serious relationships spend time dreaming about and planning a wedding without a partner. It’s not a pageant, and should not be treated as such. It’s a ceremony that marks an incredibly serious commitment, not a chance to show off how pretty you are or how great a party you can throw. If that is really how you see a wedding, chances are you aren’t really ready to be married.