I hope I have the courage to say “Don’t tase me, bro!” whenever I see a cop. Comic gold.
And BigT, when I saw you were the last poster, I expected you to be supporting the tasering of these jackholes. As it happens, I agree with what you did post.
Have any of you been to Philadelphia? I lived there for a short time. Getting tasered is about the least unpleasant experience you can expect to experience at a ballgame.
Good times.
IMO, running out on the field is, by default, threatening.
But it isn’t. We’ve thought of what, two examples where someone who entered the field did something harmful? This idiocy probably happens a hundred times a year in baseball alone. It’s stupid and the (usually drunk) morons who do it deserve to spend some time in jail and get fined. Security should stop them. But let’s not pretend there’s something threatening about it.
That seems unfair. A cop should just be able to run someone down and subdue them, no matter what? Frankly, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if even a fit cop, especially in all his gear (including, potentially, body armor) couldn’t always outrun a teenage boy. I’m not going to armchair this one but be reasonable.
We have examples of it being threatening, including the base coach getting beaten up and a tennis player being stabbed. While we don’t know if any particular person on the field is a threat, I have no problem making a blanket statement that guards will treat anyone on the field as a threat and will act accordingly. I see no reason to assume otherwise.
At this point those two are the only examples we have of it being threatening. It’s reason for security to be vigilant, but it’s not a reason to taser all of these guys because the evidence does not support the idea that they are all threats.
There’s no reason to assume they’re a threat because we have an infuriatingly large sample size to judge from. Almost all of these people run around stupidly until they get arrested, and that’s all they do. Tasering should be reserved for someone who gives an indication of being a threat, such as having a weapon or approaching a player. Your typical idiot on the field doesn’t do those things. Having a weapon speaks for itself, and since the players usually give them a wide berth, you can tell if they are approaching and something is wrong. I’m not advocating a wait and see approach where security stays on the sidelines.
I’m of two opinions here: what I want to be done and what I think should be done
I listen to Colin Cowherd on ESPN radio on the way to work and even though sometimes I find him to be a condescending jackass, he occasionally makes very good points that I agree with. He’s like a less douchey version of Jim Rome, who tries to be an asshole all the time.
Anyway, Colin and I both agree that tasing should be permitted and ought to be used more often. He made the point that the deaths are rare and a lot less risky than if you shot the guy or hit him in the head with a nightstick or choked him out. And though I’ve never been tased, most people I’ve seen on TV who get tased shake it off after a few seconds. With mace, they’ll still be feeling it in their eyes an hour afterwards. Plus, it gets people to stop acting like idiots really quick, from a range, and is less dangerous for the cop. So I think tasing should be done.
However, I want people to run on the field. I think baseball is boring, so anything to liven things up is ok. Yes, Monica Seles got stabbed and yes, that old baseball manager was attacked by those 2 idiots a couples years back, but just as people excuse the tiny instances where tasing is lethal, actual attacks like the above is simply a remote and tiny possibility. So what I want is that people be chased like one of those British comedy videos with that saxaphone riff, and having fat security guards run around trying to catch these people. Or have a pitcher throw a 90mph into the heads of these guys. And I want this shown on TV, none of this “let’s not give them publicity” shit. And afterwards, the reporters should interview these guys to see what they were thinking and why they were doing it. That’s what I want.
In discussing the potential threat of someone running onto the field, I notice the use of the words, “usually,” “almost all,” “probably” - I wouldn’t want to be the security guard working the day a fan who “usually” is harmless hurts a professional athlete. I have no doubt that the rule in security guard work at major league stadiums is take them down ASAP, by whatever means necessary.
Now, if they added ravenous wolves to stadiums, THEN we’d see some by-God entertainment!
I, for one, would like to hear Morganna The Kissing Bandit’s opinion on the subject.
I think this is the perfect use of a taser.
Your answer means you think getting tackled is less severe than being tasered. I challenge that premise. It’s not easy to bring someone down who doesn’t want to go down. There’s a reason why football players wear all that gear. It hurts to get tackled. You are essentially getting your “bell rung” each time.
A taser can be used in short bursts to effectively stop the running motion. There is a point of no-return where it’s continued use after the subject has dropped is punitive.
Each situation is different. If a subject drops but then goes on to punch and kick then continued use is warranted. It’s dependent on the behavior of the person resisting arrest as to how extensive the tasering event is.
The problem with that approach is we never know, in the heat of the moment, whether the guy is just another jackass, or if he’s the 1-in-however many that are actually dangerous. Maybe he’s got a gun, knife, spray can of bio weapon, scale model nuclear device, bomb-belt, whatever.
Everybody knows running on the field is not allowed. I have no problem with presuming ill intent and reacting accordingly. The jackasses of the world have only to stay the hell off the field, and they won’t get tased.
I don’t think wrapping somebody up (or sticking out a leg) is actually that difficult. Security guards all around the country have figured out a method.
Particularly if you’re doing it dozens of times a game… which doesn’t apply here.
And yet as people continue to run out onto the field during sporting events, the guys with knives continue to be extremely rare - some other examples are mentioned here - and the bioweapon and a-bomb guys continue to not exist at all. Based on the data we have, are we allowed at some point to draw a conclusion about the people who do this and the likelihood of various events happening? Or are we required each and every time to imagine a series of increasingly unlikely scenarios and treat them as possibilities to justify the strongest possible reaction? It seems like you’re proposing the latter. I can imagine a lot of things happening, but I have a handle on what’s likely and what isn’t.
And for that matter the idea of a guy on the field with a bioweapon or a nuke or a bomb is ridiculous- those guys wouldn’t be running out on the field. The field is the least populated area in the entire stadium. Knives occasionally happen. And if someone runs at a player with a knife (or just his fists), I’m fine with having security do whatever they need to including use of a taser. Regardless of whether or not the runner appears to be armed, security always responds immediately and there is still usually a delay in which, if the guy was going to hurt someone, he would be able to do it anyway. If you watch the video of this idiot in Philadelphia, though, you can see he’s not making a threatening move. He runs away from security for a few seconds, but that’s all he does. If he was going to hurt someone, he could have anyway.
Former LEO here.
Fair question.
Answer: training and experience.
Yes, any given idiot who runs onto the field/court/arena etc. is probably not there to do harm and will fold like a sheet once cops actually get a hand on them.
The problem is, one never knows the mind of the perp, and that kid was certainly capable of injuring a player or employee or cop. Tasers are a wonderful tool to reach out and stop a fight with the least possible injury to all involved.
It’s so easy for you all to sit there and say how this should have been handled better, and pick on the cops for over-zealous behavior.
I say this simply as a statement of fact, not to pick a fight: Unless you’ve worn a badge, and tried to get someone to comply with your lawful orders who has absolutely no intention of doing so, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Until you’ve tried to catch, fight, manage, and handcuff a person -10years old and up - without injuring them or you, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Tase him, bro.
I don’t think “you all” are saying that. It’s just me.
Good thing I wasn’t pretending to be a cop, then. Regardless, is there anything to this argument other than “it’s justified because it makes the job easier?” It sucks for a security guard or a cop to risk injury to tackle an idiot or arrest a criminal, but then again, that’s part of the job, isn’t it? If you become a security guard or a police officer, you know that’s a risk you are dealing with. Tasers are a good alternative to shooting or clubbing people, but tasering the idiot running around on the ballfield is a lot closer to tasering the mouthy grandmother at the traffic stop than it is to saving a life.
Nobody says they’re enacting statutes. They and their ticket buyers make contracts, enforceable under the law if necessary. Should I have said “attendees are thus required by law to abide by the terms of the contract which obligates them to”?
Hundreds (thousands?) of other police or security officers have successfully apprehended goofballs running on playing fields without injury and without tasers, so the taser clearly isn’t the minimum force necessary for these situations.
I expect the Phillies (and other teams) will (or already have, now) instituted a no-taser policy for fans on the field. They might not publicize the policy, but they definitely don’t want any more taser shots if they can avoid it, simply for publicity reasons.
Among other things, the excitement of the first incident has already led to a copycat at the very next game. No taser needed this time; the article also notes that police who work Yankees and Mets games do not carry tasers at all.
Have you ever been tackled? What makes you think this is less painful than getting tasered?