Basics of registered trademarks

I’m familiar with the concept of a product name being a registered trademark, but a product number? At the Mossberg website, I saw a reference to the model 500 ® and the model 91 ™. How does this work? Does this mean no other company can have a model 500? Does anybody else think that’s weird?

How far does a trademark extend? I mean, could I call something the “Cheerio” as long as it wasn’t a cereal? I mean, a bunch of car names are also spreadsheet names (Excel, Lotus, Quattro (sp?)), so is one of them not trademarked, or are they in different spheres (for want of a better word)?

I think you’ve got the gist of it right there. Just because BMW has a model 420, that doesn’t mean Whirlpool can’t make a model 420 refrigerator. However, Chrysler might get in some trouble if they made a model 420. I may be wrong, though. You’d be better off waiting for one of the more lawyerly types to respond to this one.


“So then Love walked up to Like and said I know that you don’t like me much. Let’s go for a ride.” -Tori Amos- Cooling

You can get a lot of this info at http://www.uspto.gov

The phrase to remember in this situation is “likelihood of confusion”

You aren’t going to buy an Excel automobile and think to yourself “Hey, I thought this was a spreadsheet program.”

Intel didn’t trademark 286, 386, and 486. However, they are all over the word Pentium as far as it applies to processors.

I think you underestimate my capacity for marketplace confusion.

Thanks for the link. It hasn’t connected yet, but I have a slow connexion.

It is my understanding (due to another thread posted a while back) that Intel couldn’t trademark 286, 386 and 486, as you are not permitted to copyright numbers. Therefore, Intel switched to the name “Pentium” which is trademarkable.


Tony Soprano: We’re the only country in the world where the pursuit of happiness is guaranteed in writing… Where’s my happiness then?
Dr. Melfi: It’s the pursuit that’s guaranteed.
Tony Soprano Yeah, always a fucking loophole.

I did notice that Cyrix has a trademark on “386/486” for processors.

The funny thing about the law is there are really not a whole lot of absolutes. Everything is always fact-specific. You simply can’t ask “If I break into a house, is it burglary?”

Burglary (if memory servers) is generally defined as committing a felony at night. Therefore many questions must be asked before I can even begin to guess what a judge might rule. Whose house was it? Did you have any authority to be in the house? What was your intent in breaking into the house? Where people in the house? Was it day? Night? Dusk? Each question is potentially relevant to whether a crime was committed and whether it was a felony or a misdemeanor.

So, the OP asked whether a model number can be trademarked. I bet you can guess what I’m going to say. Its fact-specific.

A trademark is something (word/phrase/picture/color/sound) that consumers identify with the source of the goods or services. The owner of a trademark can prevent people from using similar trademarks if (1) it will cause consumers to be confused as to source, or (2) it will harm their trademark.

The first generally does not cross goods and services. The Fox network cannot claim that consumers will think that Fox Fire (a barbeque manufacturer) is somehow affiliated with the television station. However, they may be able to convince a judge that Fox is such a famous name, that if Fox Fire is allowed to continue, it will harm Fox Network’s trademark becuase it will dilute the distinctive quality of the trademark.

So, to answer your question, trademark rights work like this:
(1) a TM holder can prevent other people from using his TM (or similar TMs) that would cause consumers to be confused; and
(2) a famous TM holder can prevent other people from diluting the distinctive quality of his TM, regardless of whether consumers would be confused.

BTW, there is a difference between ® and TM. ® means that a trademark is registered with the Federal Government, TM is more of a warning that, although not registered with the Federal Government, the company using TM believes it has rights in the mark. Also, there is no need to use either notation when refering to other people’s trademarks. Even Marilyn vos Savant got this one wrong. Just because Intel puts a ® after its name, doesn’t mean anyone other than Intel has any obligation to do the same.


            TM

Morgan

hmmm. my sig line would have been funnier had it printed like I wanted it to. How about this one.

-------TM------
Morgan

How about Morgan &#8482 ?

(That would be &#8482 to make the symbol.)

Yeah, but Morgan is already the name of a small car company (both in the sense that the company is small and that they make small cars)

Yay – a question for a trademark attorney.

I spend many long hours arguing to the PTO that a given mark a client has applied for a registration for is unlikely to be confused with another company’s registered mark.

So that is the key – likelihood of confuson as to the source of goods and services in interstate commerce. Although it offers protection to the companies that use the mark, it actually was intended as protection for consumers from dodgy trade practices.

A lot of factors influence the likelihood of confusion determination – how similar the marks are, how similar the goods are, the channels of trade in which the goods are sold, and the sophistication or lack thereof of the consumer targets of said goods.

As someone noted, it all depends on the goods you are using the mark for. Let’s take an example: the word OCEAN is used in hundreds of trademarks. It’s a very common word. So, lots of people have registered marks with the word OCEAN in them. But the purchaser of OCEAN saline nose drops in unlikely to purchase an OCEAN personal motor watercraft out of confusion. The marks are identical, but the goods couldn’t be more different, they are aimed at different consumers, and are unlikely to be sold in the same places.

Another interesting consideration to allowing registration, though, is the strength of the mark. For example, KODAK means nothing by itself. Therefore, Eastman-Kodaks use of that word for its goods and services is “arbitrary” KODAK means nothing, and therefore has nothing to do with cameras. The same goes for XANAX for a drug for depression – it means nothing by itself, and doesn’t evoke the product. Over time, such a mark develops an extra level of protection. So where lots of folks can use “SKY” for whatever they want to use it for, pretty much noone can use KODAK except Eastman-Kodak. Some years ago, some bicycle maker tried to register KODAK for its bicycles. The court held that even though bicycles were unlikely to be confused with Film, cameras, processing, photo paper, etcetera, the name was so famous and so arbitrary that there would be an assumption that the KODAK bicycle was sold by Eastman-Kodak.

But take a number : Model 486. This is an extremely weak mark – it describes a model or type of thing. (And numbers can be part of a registered trademark - e.g., LEVIS 501 BLUES). The PTO is unlikely to offer a ton of protection to such a weak mark, outside of the class of goods it describes. So as noted above, pretty much anyone could register a mark with 486 in it.

Unless the PTO rejected such as purely descriptive (say, for a computer model 486). Companies can use marks which are purely descriptive (and put a TM as notice that they think they have rights) but the PTO will often refuse to grant registration for such marks. For example, “Fresh Rolls” would be merely descriptive of fresh bread rolls. But “Fresh Rolls” might be allowed registration for, I dunno, type of roller skates, because in that situation, you’d say that “fresh” referred to a colloquial term meaning good, cool, in, hip, and “rolls” was a quirky way of suggesting how the product worked, and together, it was suggestive and not descriptive as used for roller skates.

Boy, sorry, that was more than you asked.


Ooh, I love your magazine. My favorite section is `How to increase your word power’. That thing is really, really… really… good. – Homer, ``Mr. Lisa Goes to Washington’’

Trademarks can be searched online now, completely free. Yeah! No more paying thru the nose for it.

Hepzibah, Im sure you are aware of the Pebble Beach Comp, which has a trademark on a living tree in PB, Calif. These people SUE any artist to draw a picture, or photograph, etc, that tree, they win, get all the art & the artist must never do another picture of the tree. lol. What do you think about that?

The answer is usually how much money you have.

An automaker can name a car Z28 to intentionally glow in the goodwill of a 280Z. No one’s fooled, but who would benefit from a lawsuit that lasted longer than the brand names?

Of course, there are idiots among big company lawyers, too, like the one that claimed Tony the Tiger and the Esso Tiger in Your Tank were ripping each other off.

Um, handy, I think you’re missing some details there that would make it make sense… In any case, you can’t trademark a tree – you can trademark an image of a tree that you use in commerce for goods and services. And, you can prevent others from using it for goods and services of their own. Now, if they’ve copyright protected certain images of the tree, they can prevent people from using those images in publication. But theoretically, someone could take images of the tree from angles not included in the TMd logo, or not resembling the copyrighted images, and use those freely. Now, they may have an aggressive legal team that sues whatever moves, and then the sued party folds like a camp-stool. Then they are getting more protection than the Federal statutes for TM and Copyright afford. But you know how litigation can work in odd ways.

Of course, you get a patent for a tree you engineered…

As to the deliberate piggybacking on the goodwill, if it is apparent to the general public that the Z28 is trying to capitalize on the 280Z, then there probably isn’t a lot of confusion – cars are expensive things that you theoretically would not be confused as to the source of – I mean, if two different automakers make those, then you can’t generally buy them new in the same places – that’ll end any such confusion PDQ. But of course, it’s annoying.

I regularly see packaging in the grocery or drugstore which is clearly meant to evoke the packaging of more well-known products. I think that TM enforcement depends so much on how much trouble the companies go to to protect that good-will. I mean, really powerful companies generally squash any hint of imitators like bugs as soon as they notice any such confusing use. But some don’t, of course, and if they don’t, nobody else will.