Batteries suck. AC Adapters suck. When are we getting wireless power?

Batteries suck. In laptops they only last a couple of hours, they need replaced every couple years, and they add a lot of weight to any device.

No question here really…

I hate AC Adapters. They’re unsightly, cumbersome, and they create a lot of heat.

Can someone explain to me why we have them? Why we don’t just use one type of current for everything - or at least for products in the home?

Wikipedia states:
Larry Page, a founder of Google, has proposed a 12 volt, 15 amp standard for almost all equipment requiring an external converter.[6] New buildings would also have 12 V DC wiring, so that in effect the AC Adapter would no longer be outside the wall.
-http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/09/google_pushes_f.php#perma

I like this idea. No more lugging around power bricks to work or school.

I would like a detachable(in case it breaks) and retractable cable built into my notebook that I can just plug in.

Also this:

I remember watching a show that claimed Tesla had found a way to transmit wireless energy and was planning on making cheap affordable energy for everyone, but then investors pulled the plug because they couldn’t think of a way to make money off of it…

Is this the same thing? Are these guys from MIT doing the same thing? Why isn’t there more media coverage on this? It should be huge!

Wireless energy transfer is very inefficient. Tesla was a nutball.

I suppose we could come up with a standard for distributing DC inside a dwelling. But it would require laptops to be capable of operating over a DC voltage range. Or each computer would require a DC-to-DC converter. Which means you wouldn’t be gaining anything.

Quite frankly, the best idea is what we have now. Modern AC-to-DC power supplies use a switching architecture that is very efficient. And they’re getting more efficient as time goes on.

I could argue that WiFi is less efficient than a direct ethernet connection, but I still couldn’t deny that it is more convenient most of the time. Doesn’t convenience trump efficiency at times? What about the waste that is created from batteries?

How can the BEST idea be what we have now? They probably said that about oil lamps a couple hundred years ago. Obviously there are better things to come.

You say Tesla was a nutball… but he created AC power. You just said AC and DC was the BEST… he was part of that equation. Why are you saying he’s a nutball when he’s contributed so much to progress.

Please explain what the negatives are of wireless power. Besides the obvious being limited range and potential loss of signal. It seems like wireless could be a very inexpensive way to get power to our low-power, mobile devices.

http://www.ted.com/talks/eric_giler_demos_wireless_electricity.html

No disrespect. Thank you for your reply.

I think fuel cells are the desired solution for laptop power (and many other applications). I thought they were getting close to mass-production feasibility but I’m not really sure what the current status is.

You might care to read Cecil’s column What’s up with “broadcast power”? (May 4, 1990) along with offshoot threads:
Broadcast power
uh oh…Cecil done gots PWNED!
Tesla and Broadcast Power
What’s up with “broadcast power”?

Not that there’s not more to discuss, you understand, but there’s a lot of information in those threads if you’re interested.

Only the cheap, inefficient ones create a lot of waste heat. A good switching one has minimal waste heat. But most of them are made as cheaply as possible.

A “12 volt, 15 amp standard” would only supply 180 watts of power. What computer could run on that? The very smallest power supply I see now is 250-300 watts, and 600-700 watt power supplies are common. And that’s just the computer, not counting all the accessories around it.

And you could buy a whole lot of power adaptors for the cost of having an electrician rewire every house to add a whole second set of circuits for 12V DC power!

Laptops and other light electronic/electric devices like calculators, clocks, nightlights, etc.

Tesla was indeed a nut, but a brilliant one. He reminds me of Howard Hughes. Remarkable accomplishments, but the older he got, the crazier he was. He was also a great show man, sorta like the guys from MIT who have been hyping resonant energy transfer as if it were something new.

You’re confusing wireless information transfer with wireless energy transfer.

The former is wonderful. With the exception of some niche applications, the latter is inefficient, expensive, and stupid.

Switched-mode, AC-to-DC power supplies are the best idea right now. I’m not saying there won’t be more efficient and cheaper devices in the future. But why worry about the future? Right now, the best solution is, um, what’s available right now.

He made valuable contributions in the development of AC motors and in a few other areas. But his ideas on wireless, large-scale power distribution never panned out. And those ideas will very likely *never *pan out. It was a goofy idea then, and it’s a goofy idea now.

Wireless power transfer is only worthwhile in a very limited number of applications. The transfer of energy over metallic conductors will ***always ***be more efficient than wireless transfer. So if power wires are not a problem in the application – and they are almost always not a problem – we should not spend any time or money trying to replace the wires with EM waves.

It’s sort of like solar cells / PV arrays. They are great for watches and calculators, but they are worthless for large-scale power production. (Actually, they are worse than worthless… they destroy good coal and good oil that could otherwise be put to good use.)

Tesla’s claims were for a system of worldwide wireless power which employed what’s now called Schumann global resonance. If you want to run lightbulbs and clocks in China using USA-based hundred-megawatt transmitters, Tesla is your guy. But he never mentioned any good methods for transmitting lower power levels over a scale of yards. He’d have to do it in the usual way: wind a coil around your entire house, then install small secondary coils in all your cellphones and laptops.

The MIT guys are only doing it over a few yards, with lots of waste heat in their coils. Their product is basically a resonant receiver being driven by a high power CB radio antenna sitting in your livingroom. It does get rid of wall transformers, but having an always-on high power CB transmitter in your livingroom introduces all the usual weird problems familiar to ham radio operators. It tends to screw up stereos and TVs (including your neighbors’!) and it’s probably an FCC violation as well as a low-level EM hazard.

No, it should not be huge. Because it’s next to worthless.

Stories like this remind me of the hoopla over air-powered cars and solar-powered cities. LOL.

The only people who get excited over these stories are the ones who have never taken a physics course.

Not wireless, but something like Page’s idea mentioned above – I’ve seen a few ‘usb’ power sockets (e.g. Dyno Domains - Domain Trading - Buy and Sell).

USB is becoming a standard for very low power items (phones, portable media players, etc.)

I’d love to also have a beefier standard suitable for laptop and other ‘medium’ power items. Would be worth it to dump the bricks.

You also need to cope with rather unfortunate side effects. Like your watch melting whilst it is on your wrist.

About the only useful form of wireless energy transfer that is generally available and used is induction cooktops. They work really rather well. They also exemplify what can’t be done.

12v 15amp supply in a house would be just plain stupid. The resistive losses through the house wiring would be colossal. The critical reason we use high voltages (and 110 volts only just sneaks into that category) is to reduce resistive losses. The only way of providing 12 volt supplies with any sort of useful efficiency would be to use converters at each outlet. Which is essentially no more than placing your existing power supply inside the wall. That might have some value - but the additional cost, maintenance, and safey issues would not be a happy set of problems.

As a mad scientist and Tesla fan (both the man and the coil), I tell you wireless power will never really happen. It’s just massively inefficient. A wire or battery is better in almost every way.

I understand the problem, but can’t all the damn portable manufacturers get together and design for one voltage with one input socket (which, after all, is just a 110 plug) and one output connector. Imagine if whenever you bought, say, a lamp, or a TV set, you had to get a specially shaped plug. See the Zits cartoon today.

Certainly they could.
But they won’t – by keeping it a unique, proprietary power converter, they make lots of money selling replacements. Price out an Apple replacement, for example.

Just like the printer manufacturers could all use standard ink cartridges or toners – but they make lots of money in selling their brand of ink (priced higher than caviar!). I think some of them sell their printers at a loss just so they can make more money from selling their ink!

Or look at all the laptops which use a special, proprietary battery rather than one of the standard battery sizes. They make lots of money selling replacement batteries. Some (like Apple) even rip off their customers by forcing them to send the device back to the factory to replace the battery!

TESLA but he had it on a much grander scale

There’s already cancer concerns about people living next to extremely high voltage transmission lines. They’ve been researching it for years.

I have no desire for wireless power zipping through my office cubicle.

I have heard of idiots tapping electricity off high voltage transmission lines. I’m not sure of the details. But, they are basically using a metal pole to pick up the emf coming off the wire. Extremely dangerous and a good way to fry themselves. In a way it’s wireless energy.

wireless power would cause electromagnetic interference in an already fragile environment and is a power wasting technology. closely coupled short distance methods will likely be the only methods ever used.

One of my college professors was one of the early researchers involved in this.

This all started way back in the late 60s or early 70s. Some insurance guy noticed that people who live next to high voltage power lines don’t live as long as folks who don’t live next to high voltage power lines (insurance guys get paid big bucks to figure these kinds of things out, since they use this data to set their rates and therefore it directly effects their bottom line). For a long time, nobody but the insurance guys seemed to really care. Then, in 1977, a study got published that linked high voltage lines and childhood leukemia. This study was later discredited but by then the genie was out of the bottle. It set up the public opinion that power lines are dangerous.

In the 80s, things really got out of hand (thanks mostly to lawyers, IMHO). People were demanding to know what levels of fields were dangerous and what was safe, but at that point very few studies had been done on the subject. Some folks reached deep into their rectal area and pulled out some numbers, and before long folks were getting paid big bucks to walk around playgrounds and schools with field strength meters proclaiming which areas were safe and which areas weren’t.

Also during the 80s, cell phones started getting slightly smaller and lighter than your average concrete block and slightly less expensive than your typical Ford, and as they became more affordable, practical, and therefore popular, folks made the obvious connection that if fields from power lines could be bad then radio waves could be bad too.

Money started pouring in to research. By this time, there were already two very widely divided camps on the subject. You had the folks who thought power lines and cell phones and such were all perfectly safe, and you had the folks who were convinced they were all the spawn of Satan and were going to kill everyone and every living thing on the planet (ok, I might be exaggerating a bit). Both sides thought the other was wrong, and both were extremely heated in their arguments. I should also point out that at that time both sides had exactly the same scientific data to support their claims, which was basically none.

So now we fast forward a couple of decades. Tons and tons of research has been done on the subject. So far, no one has ever been able to prove a conclusive link between either power lines or cell phones and anything bad like cancer. Once in a while a study will find some sort of link, but then follow-up studies fail to find the same link. You might think that, given the extreme emotions of both sides of the argument, that many of these studies are biased (oh, gee, the study funded by the Coalition to Ban All Evil Cell Phones found that they cause cancer, gee what a surprise) but actually most of the studies are done by reputable scientists and their methods are valid. This is just what you get sometimes. You do a study and sometimes you find something, but sometimes it is a false positive. You publish what you find, and see if follow-up studies find the same thing. That’s the way science works.

The problem is that “CELL PHONES ARE KILLING US” makes a great front page story, while “Nope, we didn’t find anything” is much less exciting and doesn’t get the same front page treatment. This means that the initial study that finds a possible link gets a huge amount of press, and the follow-up studies that don’t find anything hardly get mentioned in the news at all. This leads a lot of folks to think that there is a lot more proof of bad things related to power lines and cell phones than there really is.

The bottom line is that after several decades of research, there has yet to be a single study that has held up to peer review and follow-up studies that has conclusively proven a link between power lines or cell phones and anything bad. After several decades and billions and billions of dollars worth of testing, it’s starting to look like absence of evidence really does mean evidence of absence.

Because you still get the occasional false positives showing up in the news, folks get the impression that this is still an undecided issue, but if there was really something to it all, you’d think that they would have found it by now.

By the way, the OP’s quote about building-wide 12 volt 15 amp circuits made me giggle. Good luck getting that to work. There are reasons Edison lost, you know. Those guys at Google should stick to software.

ETA: By the way, we still don’t know why folks who live next to power lines live shorter lives. One of my college professor’s theories was that folks who choose to live healthier lifestyles simply choose not to live next to power lines.