Battlestar Galactica 1.11 — "Colonial Day" (do not taunt happy fun spoiler)

How so?
You only need spoilers for a few things.

[ul]
[li]This episode - specific plot points especially[/li][li]A future episode - anything[/li][li]Speculation[/li][li]Outside knowledge that reveals story arcs or plot developments not yet aired[/li][/ul]

How hard is that? I’d rather not risk having something spoil my knowledge of the show and what’s coming up. I mean, hey, it’s Cervaise’s thread, and he lays down the spoiler rules, but you could literally type no more than two words for each of those:

[ul]
[li]Current Ep[/li][li]Future Ep[/li][li]Speculation[/li][li]Story Arc/Plot[/li][/ul]

Yeah, it’s really pretty simple. What’s tedious is the people who refuse to type an extra couple of words to label their spoilers.

Nope, too late! Discussion has already been killed! :wink:

Although since the thread title contains a spoiler warning, I would assume open spoilers of the current show are appropriate. I don’t care about spoiler-boxing anything but future episode spoilers and speculation based on “Beyond this episode” type knowledge.

Or in other words, anything that would “spoil” the surprise and therefore my enjoyment of the rest of the season.

So, IMO, any rule need only be 2 sentences long:
Current episode spoilers open. Future episode and “Informed Speculation” spoilers closed, labeled by type.


Back to discussion of the episode. For those who don’t like this type of episode, you may have to get used to it. The planning for the show, according to the podcast, includes at most a “combat” episode every 4 episodes, roughly. This is due both budget availability and the desire of the writers to explore various aspects of the show, including politics. This ain’t your mama’s space drama.

Thank you!

Way too vague. Does this mean if I don’t want to put something in a spoiler box, I don’t have to?

Really? Yet it’s much simpler for picker to take the time to 'splain me:

More than a paragraph to me, and a lot longer to code.

Plus, picker has added, “Current Ep, Speculation, and Story Arc/Plot” to the list of things that should be spoilered. This isn’t confusing, tedious & complicated? Wouldn’t “Current Ep, Speculation, and Story Arc/Plot” pretty much include everything that we could pretty much talk about? We have to spoiler box it all, and label it?

So these threads should consist of:

“Dude, I totally like this show!”
“Dude, no I totally like it more!”
“No way dude, I like totally lurv it!”
“Dude, you totally don’t lurv it as much as me!”

And everything else should be spoiler boxed? Or it’s up to us to decide? Or what?

NoPretentiousCodename is right on. Couple lines. Splain it out at the start of the thread. It doesn’t take a paragraph, Cervaise, and even if it did, you can copy, paste & save it in a little sticky on your computer and re-paste it once a week when you start the thread.

That’s what I like about Roslin. She has a power I haven’t really seen since Dune. No matter what the odds stacked against her, she’s like, “that is not going to happen. I’m going to win.” And she does. The former president considered her a personal friend, and nagged her into staying in politics, even when she wanted to get out. I think it was because he knew this was a woman who could succeed him. And she’s proven, when it comes down to it, she could. Easily.

No, no, no! The thread title says “SPOILERS”!!! Why the hell would a thread full of black boxes be at all desireable?!? Having spoiler boxes allows you to seperate two things - (1) what we all know (everything from the beginning of the series up to and INCLUDING the episode this thread is dedicated for) and (2) what we don’t know (everything AFTER the episode this thread is dedicated for). The ONLY things that should be put in a spoiler boxes are #2 and #4 of your list.

levdrakon, you’re right about Roslin rising to meet her challenges, but she’s not the only one. That’s part of what fascinates me about the show - the humans mostly had pretty ordinary or even mediocre lives before, used to just sliding along, and they’re now all being asked to perform on a level they’ve never experienced before. Adama was an outdated old officer about to be retired, Tigh was a drunk being stashed away in a harmless billet until he got his years in, Roslin was a schoolteacher already promoted over her head, Starbuck had a disciplinary assignment to an old hulk about to be decommissioned because of her attitude problem, the rest of the crew would have had a better assignment if they’d shown more real ability or leadership, Baltar had been faking his genius all along, even the civilians were just scooped up at random. Only Adama had ever been called upon to do what he’s doing now, and that was many years ago.

Some are growing into their responsibilities and a few are overwhelmed by them. That situation must be what happens in any war, though - momentous times evoke the greatness latent in many people, and expose its absence in some.

Quick question: Why bother hiding speculation in a spoiler box, unless it’s based on information not available from simply watching the show?

Speaking of rising to the circumstances, I think one of the appealing things about the show is that the humans often “want it” more than the cylons. An example is the Adama-Cylon brawl in the steam room in the miniseries. Adama took his licks, for sure, but he fought back hard and the cylon (Leoben?) seemed to give up. I think the cylon belief that their consciousness will never die (whether true or not) is a weakness in thas regard.

Another example of this, although not against the cylons, was Starbuck (The best bar brawler in the fleet) walking through obvious pain to catch the guy with the gun.

That sounds very familiar Mr. Zerik…or should I say, Mr. Marx???

Just joking. But what happens when the marketing managers (surely a truly vital piece of society - just ask them!) say, “Fuck you sir. I’m not going to work on a damage control crew”?

Do you starve them? Do you demote them to garbage collectors?

The situation is desperate, but recall that these people aren’t even willing to force their prisoners (who were already convicted to hard labor) into doing dangerous hard labor.

-Joe

That subject always reminds me of “The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy” and the ship loaded with useless advertising executives and telephone sanitizers - and the Simpsons’ ship that took Homer, Bart, Rosie O’Donnell, Richard Simmons, and many more into the sun. Surely Ron Moore couldn’t be satirizing satire, could he?

I agree completely. These characters aren’t introduced as heroes; they become heroes.

Compare: On Trek, Picard was a star athlete at the Academy, he has his pick of plum assignments, he’s the captain of the flagship, he’s even an expert on theta-band radiation. :wink: Everybody is already outstanding from minute one, so there’s less room for them to rise to the occasion. This fits in with the utopian vision of Trek, where people’s goodness has come to the fore and petty differences are a thing of the past; instead of identifying with the characters, we find them admirable and we aspire to their level of greatness.

But on Galactica, these are ordinary people with ordinary lives who are thrust into an extraordinary situation. We don’t admire the characters simply for who they are; we identify with them on the basis of their recognizable problems, and then we admire them for what they find themselves capable of doing. Instead of yearning toward the gods on their pedestals, we walk in the shoes of ordinary people to see what we ourselves can accomplish when pressed. It’s a huge difference in storytelling mindset, and for my money it’s much richer and much more fulfilling.

Re the spoiler policy:

I am not a fan of legal prescriptivism. I am not a fan of trying to write rules based on imagined contingencies. I am, instead, a fan of treating people like adults and letting common sense hold sway. I believe that given a general but common-sense guideline, most people are capable of policing themselves; but, by contrast, given a set of carefully-worded restrictions, people automatically shift into loophole-seeking mode. It’s not bad; it’s just a reality of human nature. It’s the same impulse that causes the wags in the back row of a Sunday School class to pepper the teacher with hypotheticals and exceptions and speculative nitpicking based on an overly literal reading of the rules presented to that point. In other words, something like this:

strikes me as being pretty much the same thing as the rabbi making a presentation on dietary restrictions, and the wiseacre kid piping up with, “You didn’t say we couldn’t drink antifreeze. Can we drink antifreeze?” (On a personal note, this is incidentally a big reason I got out of Human Resources in my career path; the endless and pointless needling of corporate policy by people with nothing better to do than tweak the nose of authority drove me absolutely nuts.)

It seems self-evident to me that, according to common sense, spoiler boxes are used whenever one is uncertain whether other people would appreciate reading and knowing some piece of material, and whenever one judges that circumspection would be appreciated in discussion of same. Definite facts about upcoming episodes? Certainly. One’s own speculation about the direction of the story? Probably not. Relating someone else’s speculation, seen elsewhere and reproduced here? That’s a little harder, because one doesn’t know whether that secondhand speculation is based on anything or not. There’s a hard center where we all agree spoiler boxes are appropriate (known future facts), and then a spreading gray area where different people can have different opinions.

That’s why I phrased the spoiler policy the way I did: to get away from those varying viewpoints and avoid the legalistic rulemaking that inevitably gets nitpicked to death (again, as informed by my history in HR, and a desire not to engage in that kind of wonkish anticipatory policymaking). Seems now, though, that nitpicking will be unavoidable no matter how the policy is stated.

So, recognizing that my history may have made me more sensitive about this than is healthy, I’m going to back up a step, and offer a compromise. Try this on for size:

Spoiler policy: If it’s been aired, it doesn’t have to be hidden in a spoiler box. If it hasn’t been aired and you’re worried people might not want to see it or know about it, hide it in a spoiler box, but make sure to label what’s being hidden so we can decide for ourselves whether or not to read it.
Comments?

My only nit is that you’re going to get a UK viewer who posts a 1.13 spoiler next week on the grounds that it’s already been aired over there. Howzabout:

Spoiler policy: If it’s been aired up to and including the episode this thread has been designated for, it doesn’t have to be hidden in a spoiler box. If it hasn’t been aired and you’re worried people might not want to see it or know about it, hide it in a spoiler box, but make sure to label what’s being hidden so we can decide for ourselves whether or not to read it.

It is quite Marxist. And it would be dangerous. When the crisis ends, and soceity starts to rebuild, how do you move back to a democratic soceity?

I’m a very “you’re either with us, or against us” person, regarding how I would like to think I’d act in such an apocalyptic situation. If it means culling the remaining population to 30,000 before we begin to rebuild, so be it. At least it will be 30,000 working towards a common goal (survival of the species), and if one isn’t actively working towards that goal, they’re also not consuming sparse resources.

Personally, I hope never to be in such a nightmare scenario, and if I am, I hope I never will be in a position to make that kind of decision. It seems a logical response, rationally thought out while I sit consuming conspicuously, but to actually have to space people unwilling to work towards a common and necessary goal? That would be a tough call even for a cruel, heartless and soulless person like me.

I think it is amazing that even (galactica) six still has no idea just how vapid and self absorbed Baltar is, even living inside his head as she does. I guess he was always such an intellectual superstar/heavyweight that he never had to worry about anything - kind of like the stereotypical rock star or professional/college athlete. And now, between six telling him that he is God’s instrument and the absolute lack of any negative consequenses* for his past choices he is able to indulge himself even more.

*for him, at any rate

Oh, I think she knows exactly how vapid and self absorbed Baltar is. That’s what makes him such an ideal Cylon puppet.

We’ve seen a lot of characterization and plot with subtext or imagery obviously drawing upon real world events: military tribunals, terrorism, politics & dissent.

I’m beginning to wonder if Baltar’s lack of grasp on reality isn’t meant to at least touch on the unreality of celebrity culture - especially, say The King of Pop.

Maybe it’s a little bit of a stretch to interpret it like this, but MMI’s comments immediately brought Michael Jackson to my mind.

::Runs out of the room screaming, waving his arm wildly. The happy fun ball will not come off of it. Suddenly, an anouncer’s voice says:

If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter and cover head.

Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types of skin.

When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be returned to its special container and kept under refrigeration. Failure to do so relieves the makers of Happy Fun Ball, Wacky Products Incorporated, and its parent company, Global Chemical Unlimited, of any and all liability.

Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an unknown glowing green substance which fell to Earth, presumably from outer space.

Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.::

Announcer: Happy Fun Ball! Accept no substitutes!

It’s very likely that we high-and-mighty marketing managers won’t want to work on damage control or garbage collection. However, as I alluded to earlier, that’s not to say we’re going to sit around doing nothing. Hey, we like being all high and mighty! We’re going to try and get that status back.

I may not be able to create dazzling marketing campaigns for the rag tag fugitive fleet, but I do have skills that I’d try to leverage to put myself in as strong a position as possible. I can write moderately well (please don’t go by my posting). Years ago I did a lot of work with distribution logisitics. I’m also a damn good project manager. Heck, even if I have to dig back to things I learned in B-school or in previous positions, I may still be one of the most qualified since there’s only 50,000 or so people around now!

Everyone has got to know there are limited resources. People are going to try make themselves as important and valuable as they can.

So I can see some sort of centralized group looking at where the fleet has needs and getting that information out to the population. I can also see them instituting some rules that beyond minimal sustainance, you’re not getting anything if you don’t contribute. Perhaps they do need to institute some sort of monetary or credit system to be used for rewards and privileges beyond minimal sustainance. Beyond that people will work to find the best fit for themselves without some central group telling them where they need to go.

Then again, I’m totally guessing. There was no “Economics of Post Apocalyptic Societies” course at my B-school!

This show got me watching the SciFi channel again, even after the *Farscape * debacle and their providing John Edward a platform. And I’m liking the show better every week.

Someone mentioned not liking this ep because our heroes acted in an unbecoming manner. But that’s just what I love about it.

Part of my brain is saying, “Roslin and Adama need to keep people in line. If a situation ever called for martial law, this is it. Zarek is a scum-sucking pig. Man, I hope Roslin keeps power so she can keep it all together and save humanity. Oooh, I can’t wait to see Starbuck whoop some ass with her cane!”

Then another part (the part in charge of ACLU donations) says, “Zarek has a point - Roslin is barely legitimate as leader, and Adama doesn’t concern himself with civil rights. How would I feel if a soldier went to a public place and tried to shut down a broadcast of his boss’s challenger, with an implied official threat, and an actual personal assault?”

In other words, this show has pointed up how dangerous power is, because those in power probably always feel that they know what’s best, anyone thwarting their purposes is dangerous, and all those controls and checks and balances are meant for other leaders - possibly evil leaders, and couldn’t possibly apply to themselves.

I like being challenged. And I think that is a legacy of classic scifi.

As for Zarek, I figured he was akin to Gerry Adams (though more obviously involved in terrorism). Again, it’s interesting to have a repulsive character advocating for good ideals. And of course, just like Roslin and Adama, he feels he’s not repulsive, he’s just done what was necessary to advance his essentially moral position.

You should have attended a better B-school. That course was one of my pre-requisites for choosing a school.