Bauer Bitch Domination Theory

[Scylla]

@Beware_of_Doug

In an earlier day we’d have said, “the idle brain is the devil’s playground.”

What I mean is: I think there’s a lot of truth to what you say. But you, as an articulate heterosexual male, are not in an appropriate position to say it.

As gender relations are understood and acted out today - at this stage in the “discourse,” if I may be a little bit Foucauldian about it - your role is to be part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Men can disparage assigned, hegemonic, or traditional gender roles. But unless they can show some credentials as outsiders - being out gay, bi, or asexual would be OK, but being some kind of outsider, say workingclass or socially non-privileged, is essential - they don’t have much credibility. They’re presumed to be unregenerate, and as such, to be speaking for themselves, not their gender.

Why? It’s a fine and searing irony, really. In expressing your misgivings about dominant masculinity - and wanting to explore women’s feelings about it - you are demonstrating your unfitness to be taken seriously, and for the very reasons you indicate. In a way, you’re trespassing on what’s basically a woman’s issue, and you won’t be really welcome unless you break a little badass.

As a man, you are already presumed to be unregenerate. You’ll likely find things a little easier if you play to that perception. A little less articulation, a little more unapologetic this-is-how-it-is-ness. You may get your ass handed to you by women now and then, but at least you’ll be helping them “subvert the dominant paradigm,” if only by embodying it.

<$.02>

I understand exactly what you mean.

If I truly understand, and am sympathetic, then I will play the role set out for me. Women do not expect me to sympathize or understand gender issues that relate to them. Implying that I do is insulting. More, it makes them uncomfortable. There is little protocol for dealing with a sympathizer who is also the oppressor.

Better to be an expected and accounted for weak villain, than an uncertain and unlikely ally. How would one deal with the latter? Shakespeare said it well:

"I had rather be a canker in a hedge than a rose in his grace, in this, though I cannot be said to be a flattering honest man, it must not be denied but I am a plain-dealing villain. If I had my mouth, I would bite; if I had my liberty, I would do my liking: in the meantime let me be that I am and seek not to alter me. "

But then things didn’t turn out well for Don John, did they?

So, why not say the things one shouldn’t say? It is only the convention and small-mindedness of others that makes it so.

[mswas]

@Beware_of_Doug

Yeah, I twigged. But I did see a great opening for a devil’s advocate (and yes, possibly playground) rant - in part, wanting to moosh it in John’s face a little.

I said a lot I disagree with. (So did Scylla, I presume.) But as a grad student and sometime cultural critic, I do think there’s a certain disdain for men who decry hegemonic masculinity. They get slammed from both sides: traditional men outside academia, and territorial women academics inside.

Hmm. I haven’t found that to be true really. But your experience might be different.

For me, I thought the OP was one of the most hilarious posts I’ve ever read on the SDMB and my wife thought so too. We’d been talking about the mysoginistic undertones of 24 already, as you’ll note I already started a thread about it. I think BBDT explains it all quite well. The only really valid counter-argument to it is that pretty much everyone gets tortured, including Jack Bauer. Though, I think the character of it is different. Also, I’d like to point out that portraying misogyny is also misandrisy as well, because to portray a woman as a weak-willed bitch, you have to portray men as domineering sadists.

[ExTank]

Scylla, my man, you definitely missed your calling. Your subtle grasp of the whole “Pimp - Ho” dynamic in sexual relations could make you millions in the porno industry.

The scripts practically write themselves.