The entire B1G, huh? Then why is Ohio State listed under the “oversigning” article on Wikipedia?
Right. Players decide to leave the University of Alabama and its football team to attend community college because the coach loves them sooo much. It’s just a real shame that it only happens at Alabama and a small number of other schools. It’s also unfortunate that it happens year after year.
Of course, the greyshirting is totally ignored, I see.
No clue. There is a rule in place in the B1G, and has been since the 50s, I think.
Ignoring my request for specific examples of players dismissed purely for performance reasons, I see.
As well as a specific answer as to why athletic scholarships should be treated differently than any other type of scholarship, other than “but that’s the way it’s always been done!”
Already did.
We just finished the 2012 season. Perhaps you slept through it.
Yeah, it’s the maximum number. It’s there in case you need to make up for excess attrition. Alabama seems to experience it every year. How kooky!
Already did. Try to keep up.
Really? I must have missed it. Would you please repost? Which players on that list were dismissed solely because they weren’t performing on the football field? I’ll wait.
I seem to recall something being said about it. However, I was trying to use the same source material I assumed you were using, and the only data I could find went through 2010. If you have more up-to-date information, I’ll be happy to look at it.
So based on this, you’re asserting that Alabama ISN’T oversigning, right? They’re playing by the same rules everyone else in the conference is using?
Okay, let me make sure I’m understanding you. You believe that Alabama, the #1 football program of the past five years, is consistently experiencing higher attrition than the rest of the country because kids would rather go to community college or just drop out. People must not like playing for winners.
Okay. If that’s your stance, I can’t disprove it.
Okay. I’ll get it.
For the second time, I’ve never accused Bama of cheating. They just don’t care about doing what’s right. Winning football games is more important.
No; you’ve made the assertion, several times, that Alabama is in the habit of cutting players who don’t perform well on the football field. No other reason; just that they’re not performing. All I’m asking you to do is prove that assertion. **Ogre **and I have already poked several holes in your list of supposed victims of this process, but I will freely admit I don’t know specifics on all of them.
I see; you’re arguing morality as opposed to abiding by the rules. I don’t know that either of us will ever convince the other on this, so I’ll bow out of this aspect of the conversation.
Saban is never going to look a player in the eyes and tell them they’re cut. At least, I seriously doubt it. It would be disasterous for recruiting. From the LSU and Bama players I’ve talked to (none of whom were ever let go from the team) it sounds like he basically tells certain players that they aren’t going to see the field ever again, and just generally makes them feel unwelcome. He may go as far as telling them that it would be in their best interest to play ball elsewhere.
I can’t cite this, but I might be able to give you a clearer picture of how I know in a PM. There may be articles out there wherein players speak out, but I’ve never looked for them. Until now, I’ve never known anyone to deny the fact that Saban effectively culls the team every year.
You started this hijack/trainwreck by posting a completely inappropriate, unwarranted cheap shot.
See, to me, that’s not cutting a player. I have no issue with a coach saying something like this: "You’re a good player, and you’ve done everything academically we’ve asked of you.
“However, your athletic skills just aren’t where we expected them to be at this point. I’m not going to take away your scholarship, but I will tell you that unless we have significant injuries, you’re never going to play in a game. If you’d like to transfer, I’ll grant it with some possible limitations. It’s your decision.”
I don’t see how that’s unfair to the player at all, and from what I’ve heard it’s essentially what happens to some players at Alabama.
I will say this: The only issue I’ve had with Alabama’s recruiting practices happened last year, when shortly before signing day (or maybe even on signing day, depending on who you ask) one of their recruits was told he didn’t have a full scholarship offer; he had a grayshirt offer. I have no issue with grayshirts, as long as the recruit and the coaches are all honest and up-front with each other about the process and what it entails. In this case, though, the recruit was blindsided with very little time to make a decision. He wound up accepting a scholarship offer to Arkansas, so it’s not like he was left with no options, but the timing of the decision left a bad taste in my mouth.
I understand your point, but when kids who are in good academic standing start dropping off the team, or transferring to CCs, it sends a lot of red flags up.
Just beat Auburn. (How’s that for a peace offering?)
I like the cut of your jib.
To me, it comes down to the matter of choice. If an athlete is told “You can stay here, but you won’t ever play here; we’ll maintain your scholarship; you decide if you want to leave” I have no issue with it, because it’s the athlete’s decision. If the athlete breaks rules, or doesn’t meet academic requirements, I don’t have a problem with pulling the scholarship in those instances, because he’s not living up to his end of the agreement.
If an athlete has his scholarship pulled out-of-hand, that I will condemn.
The simple, morally upright solution: eliminate the restrictions on transfers. No waivers, no year of ineligibility, you can go anywhere that will take you and play right away.
I decided to save y’all the trouble of arguing and posturing over whose responsibility it is to google each of these names.
Glenn Harbin –Left to play baseball
Demetrius Goode –Wasn’t happy sitting on the bench so he moved to community college. Apparently he only cared about football, too.
Petey Smith–Would rather play football at community college than study at Alabama
Brandon Moore–Suspended for a violation of team rules. Voluntarily transferred.
Corey Grant
[QUOTE=Saban calls RB Corey Grant's decision to transfer 'a bit of a surprise' - al.com]
He said, ‘Coach, I’m going to go through the spring, I’m going to work my tail off, but if it doesn’t look like I’m going to get to play much, I’d like to go my fifth year somewhere where I can play a lot. Are you OK with that?’ I said, 'Absolutely. I understand your circumstance and I appreciate and respect what is important to you in having a positive college experience."
[/quote]
Keiwone Malone –Suspended for team rules.
Robby Green –Dismissed from the team for disciplinary issues.
Darrington Sentimore –Suspended for team rules violations.
Kerry Murphy Medical scholarship.
Kendall Kelly Medical scholarship. Entering the 2013 draft with Alabama listed as his last school
Wes Neighbors–Suffered a career-ending injury
Terry Grant –Chose to leave after it became clear he wasn’t talented enough to see meaningful playing time.
Travis Sikes–(follow above link. same situation as terry grant)
Rod Woodson Not good enough to play. Decided to transfer somewhere he could
Star Jackson
[QUOTE=Nick Saban on Star Jackson: 'We hate to see any player leave the program' - al.com]
But I think sometimes when quarterbacks can’t see the light at the end of the tunnel in terms of when they might be able to play, they get a little antsy and might want to go someplace else. Star and I have discussed it, and we’re going to help him do what he feels is going to make him and his family the best decision for his future."
[/quote]
Taylor Pharr –Medical scholarship
Milton Talbert –Medical scholarship
Darius McKeller –Medical scholarship
Ronnie Carswell–Suspended. Rumor has it the issue was academic, but there’s no public confirmation
Wilson Love–I can’t actually find anything about him.
These kids are there to play football. They would rather get an inferior education than miss the chance to play football. Don’t blame the coaches. I can’t find any evidence that these decisions were anything but mutual.
Haters gonna hate. Roll Tide.