Stan Freburg, if I remember correctly.
Man, this is where the real value of the SDMB shows its strength. Great thread.
You are correct sir!
Well, The Bronx is not on the island, so that is beside the point.
However, I do wonder how the early settlers could have managed if there were no fresh water on the island. I don’t think it can be true. The Hudson must surely be tidal and brackish around there. I do not think its waters are likely to be fresh enough for drinking until you get way upstream from Manhattan. The island is right in the river’s mouth, after all.
Great analogy, IMHO. I’m going to use this when I teach this, if I may.
And as for the Hudson…it is salt water down there, with a bit of fresh after, say, a week of heavy rains upstate. Brackish at least up to Albany, where it’s still tidal.
However, there are/were a few freshwater springs on Manhattan. A detailed 1776 map on my wall shows a pond down near today’s City Hall labeled… “Fresh Water”! (it looks like “Frefh Water”).
Ah, the long S. Language used to be way more fun. (Though harder to read.)
The estimate that the 60 Dutch guilders worth of things that Minuit traded to the Indians would now be worth $24 is wildly wrong. Something worth 60 Dutch guilders back then would now be worth several thousand American dollars.
As with lots of things involving old money and inflation, it’s quite probable that the “$24” amount was true at some point in the past when $24 was a lot of money. But yeah, definitely not the case nowadays - just as people look at old ads for 5c bottles of Coca-Cola, failing to realise that equates to about $1 in modern currency.
Yeah, but it’s even more annoying in this case because it’s a value that’s been passed down through not just several years but several generations of textbooks. It’s been a long time since 60 Dutch guilders in Minuit’s time has been equal in inflation-adjusted value to $24 current U.S. dollars, probably well over a century. Despite this, history books kept giving the same dollar number throughout that time, never adjusting the value for inflation. So instead of people today thinking that the Indians were willing to take the value of a good used car (to pick a current item) for that land (which, as has been pointed out, they didn’t own anyway), people who hear the $24 figure think that the Indians were willing to take the value of a single inexpensive hardback book (to pick another current item).
So, what was 64 guilders in Dutch local purchasing value?
“None of that cash stuff.”
According to this historic dutch currency converter
Seems like a correct price for an unused island.
Approximately one island.
I had forgotten that there was a column by Cecil on this subject:
His calculations are that 60 Dutch guilders in 1626 would buy a pound and a half of silver. That much silver (as of 1991, when he wrote the column) would now be worth $72. However, he also makes the following calculations. The Louisiana Purchase in 1803, which was for $3 million, bought 23% of the current land of the U.S. He figures that the value of all the land in the U.S. in 1991 was $2.7 trillion. So the value of the land purchased in 1803 for $15 million was worth $618 billion in 1991. This means that the land increased in value by an average of 5.5% each year from 1803 to 1991 by going from $15 million to $618 billion.
He says that the value of all the land (by itself, not including buildings or anything else) in Manhattan in 1991 was $11.75 billion. That means that the value of the land increased by an average of 5.3% each year from 1626 to 1991, if you assume the value went from $72 to $11.75 billion. So Minuit overpaid for the land. Yeah, this is all pretty arbitrary and full of off-the-wall guesses.
Cite?
I wrote:
> . . . The Louisiana Purchase in 1803, which was for $3 million . . .
I meant:
> . . . The Louisiana Purchase, which was for $15 million in 1803, . . .
Sorry if this has been mentioned above and I missed it, but I once read – or did an old history prof mention it? – that the Indians involved in the deal were actually from another island and thought they were pulling a fast one on the Europeans. But I’ve never encountered that claim again. Has anyone else heard this?
Going back to the OP: DSORVIK, who has offered to sell you 100 beads that were supposedly part of the trade between Minuit and the Indians? Have you attempted to have this person arrested for fraud?
Siam Sam, yes, it’s been mentioned in this thread. silenus wrote in one post, ‘IIRC, the deal was a total scam because the tribe that “sold” Manhattan didn’t “own” it. They only wintered there or some such. It was part of another bands regular stomping grounds.’
This is a Zombie thread from 10 years ago, and the OP has a total history of 2 posts on this MB, both in this thread from that time period.
Thanks, John Mace. I had forgotten that this was a zombie thread.
That’ll be 64 Dutch Guilders. Or Manhattan Island. 