beer

[mynizzel]

If you put a beer in the refrigerator and it freezes do it lose it alcohol content when you thaw it out?

[OneCentStamp]

Welcome to the boards, mynizzel.

No, there’s no reason the beer would lose its alcohol content. What it will lose, if you freeze and thaw it, is most or all of its carbonation. Eww.

In fact, the “ice” beers that were all the rage a few years ago used partial freezing to raise the alcohol content. Since water freezes at a higher temperature than alcohol, brewers would drop beer to 30 degrees, skim off some of the water ice and -presto- beer at 5.6% alcohol instead of 4…8%. Whoo-hoo.

[Translucent_Daydream]

But the taste of the ice beers left little to be desired.

[Bobotheoptimist]

@OneCentStamp

What it will lose, if you freeze and thaw it, is most or all of its carbonation.

I’ve never noticed that. If you let the beer thaw whilst still sealed the carbonation has nowhere to go except back from whence it came.

I may have to do some experimentation this weekend.

@OneCentStamp

In fact, the “ice” beers that were all the rage a few years ago used partial freezing to raise the alcohol content. Since water freezes at a higher temperature than alcohol, brewers would drop beer to 30 degrees, skim off some of the water ice and -presto- beer at 5.6% alcohol instead of 4…8%. Whoo-hoo.

Cite? That’s distillation and BATF frowns on anyone crossing the line between brewing and distilling without proper authorization.

[Translucent_Daydream]

@Bobotheoptimist

Cite? That’s distillation and BATF frowns on anyone crossing the line between brewing and distilling without proper authorization.

This appears to be true, I read it in a bartenders book when I was working whole sale liquor, check out the wiki on freeze distillation, which is what was in the book I read.

[OneCentStamp]

@Bobotheoptimist

Cite? That’s distillation and BATF frowns on anyone crossing the line between brewing and distilling without proper authorization.

Is the Master accepted as a cite here?

BeerAdvocate.com also has a good article on it, but I can’t link it because it’s blocked from my work.

[Bobotheoptimist]

@OneCentStamp

Is the Master accepted as a cite here?

Well… maybe
I do see that he suggested a difference between Canada and US beers in that article -

“Anheuser-Busch doesn’t filter out the ice crystals, so its Budweiser Ice Draft has the same alcohol content as regular Bud”
But I’ll concede the point (as **OneCentStamp **didn’t say anything about where the beer was made, and Eisbocks are done this way), and restate mine thus - "Most US beers do not have the ice crystals removed as this is distillation and so further regulated.

[OneCentStamp]

@Bobotheoptimist

Well… maybe
I do see that he suggested a difference between Canada and US beers in that article -

“Anheuser-Busch doesn’t filter out the ice crystals, so its Budweiser Ice Draft has the same alcohol content as regular Bud”
But I’ll concede the point (as **OneCentStamp **didn’t say anything about where the beer was made, and Eisbocks are done this way), and restate mine thus - "Most US beers do not have the ice crystals removed as this is distillation and so further regulated.

And, see, I was coming from the opposite perspective: I was thinking of Eisbock to start with, and found the SD column by chance when I Googled it just now.

[sqweels]

@Bobotheoptimist

“Anheuser-Busch doesn’t filter out the ice crystals, so its Budweiser Ice Draft has the same alcohol content as regular Bud”

"Most US beers do not have the ice crystals removed as this is distillation and so further regulated.

Then what’s the point of the process?

[OneCentStamp]

@sqweels

Then what’s the point of the process?

Guesses:

1. Marketing ploy - now they can call it “ice beer,” thus playing to the American taste for the coldest beer possible?

2. It’s an Anheuser-Busch product: therefore, anything that might change the taste is worth a try? [/beersnob]

[kanicbird]

@sqweels

Then what’s the point of the process?

I thought it was a alternate way of killing the yeast.

Also some domestic ice beers do have higher proof, I just assumed they were brewed that way, not that a freeze ‘distilling’ method was used.

[Bobotheoptimist]

@OneCentStamp

2. It’s an Anheuser-Busch product: therefore, anything that might change the taste is worth a try? [/beersnob]

I’ll drink to that!
It appears that Molson Ice was first, and as with so many other things, Bud/Miller latched on to a trend and screwed it up in the process.

Also, they could brew to a higher alcohol content to try for the get-drunk-quick market with the “Ice” moniker.

[psycat90]

@Bobotheoptimist

Well… maybe

But I’ll concede the point (as **OneCentStamp **didn’t say anything about where the beer was made, and Eisbocks are done this way), and restate mine thus - "Most US beers do not have the ice crystals removed as this is distillation and so further regulated.

I don’t think that’s correct.

From TTB:

During production of ice beer, the beer is cooled below freezing causing the formation of ice crystals. The beer is then filtered or subjected to other processes which **remove a portion of the ice crystals from the beer. **The resultant product contains slightly less volume than the beer which entered the process. After this freezing process, brewers restore to the beer at least the volume of water lost when ice crystals are removed.

ATF has also examined statements of process for ice beers. Our examination has found that the volume removed as ice crystals does not exceed 0.5 percent of the volume of the beer entered into the process. ATF thus concludes that removal of up to 0.5 percent of the volume of beer through the removal of ice crystals is customary industry practice and results in a product which may be considered beer.
From a ruling on whether or not ice beers should be considered concentrates as defined by another regulation. (No.)

So it looks like they take it out, but add it back, and even if they didn’t, it’s common practice anyway?

Not sure, but that’s how I read it.

Still, definitely *not *considered distillation by TTB and definitely allowed.

[Translucent_Daydream]

Oh, and by the way, Bud Ice and Natural Ice and yukness like that aren’t ‘beers’ in Texas, they are ‘ales’. I am assuming that is because they can’t be ‘beers’ because of the ice removal and concentrated status.

Some cans say “beer - ale in TX”

And I think that Uncle Cecil’s article is a bit outdated, all ice beers that I have seen in the business have a higher alcohol content, even Butt Ice.

[Bobotheoptimist]

@Translucent Daydream

Oh, and by the way, Bud Ice and Natural Ice and yukness like that aren’t ‘beers’ in Texas, they are ‘ales’. I am assuming that is because they can’t be ‘beers’ because of the ice removal and concentrated status.

Some cans say “beer - ale in TX”

And I think that Uncle Cecil’s article is a bit outdated, all ice beers that I have seen in the business have a higher alcohol content, even Butt Ice.

According to the reference provided by psycat90, the concentration must be less than .5%, so any significant increase in alcohol content isn’t going to come about because of water removal. This is about a .025% increase in alcohol (someone check my math), that difference won’t even register on the label, at least I’ve never seen anything claiming to be 4.824%
They may be brewing a stronger product and marketing it as “ice” but I still maintain that the ATF doesn’t allow cold distillation unless you are a distiller. I believe psycat90’s cite backs me up on this.

After this freezing process, brewers restore to the beer at least the volume of water lost when ice crystals are removed.

Discussion. ATF has examined laboratory samples of ice beer. In all cases, ATF finds that the basic character of the beer is unchanged; i.e., the product continues to resemble beer after the removal of small amounts of ice crystals and its alcoholic content is not increased to a substantial degree.

(bolding mine)

Texas legislature may well be on crack, and there is some evidence that this is so, but ale is a subset of beer that has nothing to do with concentration so it’d make no sense to use ale in that sense. Not saying they don’t do so, just that it’d be odd if that were so.

[WarmNPrickly]

Oh, and by the way, Bud Ice and Natural Ice and yukness like that aren’t ‘beers’ in Texas, they are ‘ales’. I am assuming that is because they can’t be ‘beers’ because of the ice removal and concentrated status.

As Bobtheoptimist said, if this is true then the Texas legislature is on crack. Whether a beer is an ale or a lager refers to the type of yeast used. Ale is top fermenting yeast, lager is bottom fermenting yeast.

[Translucent_Daydream]

Well this site shows that Keystone Ice, Busch Ice, Natural Ice have 5.9 % by volume, where as Keystone Premium (which is the non light version of Cheapstone Light) has 4.6 % by volume.

Here is a better site showing how much more alcohol by volume ice beers have to their respective counterparts.

I am not wrasslin’ with the facts of how they “ice” the beer, but “ice” beers are indeed significantly stronger than their non-iced out versions.

Also, as a side note, they only taste good if you are sporting a mullet.

[Translucent_Daydream]

@Christopher

As Bobtheoptimist said, if this is true then the Texas legislature is on crack. Whether a beer is an ale or a lager refers to the type of yeast used. Ale is top fermenting yeast, lager is bottom fermenting yeast.

Not to argue about the cracked out status of the legislature in the Lone Star State, but here you go on a cite for that as well. (why would I lie about something as sacred as beer?)

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/beer-faq/part2/section-6.html

[psycat90]

@Translucent Daydream

Not to argue about the cracked out status of the legislature in the Lone Star State, but here you go on a cite for that as well. (why would I lie about something as sacred as beer?)
[

Yea, wacky state laws abound when it comes to beer.

Here are more.

[Captain_Amazing]

@Translucent Daydream

Not to argue about the cracked out status of the legislature in the Lone Star State, but here you go on a cite for that as well. (why would I lie about something as sacred as beer?)

rec.food.drink.beer FAQ [2/3] (revised 16-MAY-1997)Section - 2-3. How are "ale", "malt liquor", and "barleywine" related to

And here are the actual definitions, from 1.04(12) and 1.04(15) of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Code:

(12) “Ale” or “malt liquor” means a malt beverage containing more than four percent of alcohol by weight.

(15) “Beer” means a malt beverage containing one-half of one percent or more of alcohol by volume and not more than four percent of alcohol by weight, and does not include a beverage designated by label or otherwise by a name other than beer.