I’m glad that the folks in this thread who have sent their kids to such places, chose facilities in their own countries. I trust you see why a shady, cruel operation would choose to locate offshore?
A probing, personal question: do you think if you had raised your kids differently BEFORE they reached the point where they needed to be sent away, the sending away could have been avoided? I don’t know about the people in this thread, but the parents in the article seemed to have blown off parenting until serious damage had been done, then they washed their hands of the problem, took out their checkbook, and let strangers take over.
Tell us what your kids were like, and what you tried to do, before you had to send them away. How does a kid get to the point where behavioral modification camps are the only solution?
(No offense is meant by this line of questioning, really. I’m willing to accept the idea that a parent can do everything possible for the kid, and still the kid turns out unmanagable.)
Thank you. No, it’s not black and white. Nor is it simple. The behavior was typical ( I say ‘typical’ only now that I’ve met and spoken with many parents who sent their kids to this facility). Our son was experimenting with drugs, getting drunk, probubly sexually active and lying about everything. When I met and married his mom (Aug 2000) he was 13 and you could tell he was a handful. His natural father died when the boy was about 3 years old, and it was a slow illness. Very sad. I knew coming into this family that it would be alot of work and a challenge as he never had a father. I tried to be understanding and fair. I tried to set reasonable limits and allow him some “teenager-angst” wiggle-room. Unfortunately, he used the freedoms to just get into more and more trouble. He was extremely self-centered, almost obscenely so. He’d been going to counselling and therapy off and on most of his life.
Minor shoplifting became felony burglary. Shoving his brother became voilent assaults on his mom. Grabbing the loose quarters from my ashtray became theft from our safe. He seemed to have no sense of personal boundries or appropriate times to discuss things. My older brother had the exact same kind of problems. My mother tried everything but did not send him away. He still lives on the couch and has been in and out of prison his whole adult life.
The last straw for me was a screaming, breaking furniture, smashing windows tantrum because my wife would not give him the haircut that he wanted right now! The fact that she was on the floor, waiting for me to take her to the emergency room, bleeding and in pain from a miscarriage, seemed not to matter to him in the least.
This sort of behavior was ongoing and escalating.
One of our great fears was that if we sent him away he’d hate us forever and we’d never see him again. But that seemed to be the way it was going anyway. Plus, we were so worn out that all we thought that even if the boot camp didn’t work, at least we’d have 6 months to a year of peace in our home. Another fear was his influence over his younger brother. I must say that the 6 months without him have been the best time in our marriage. I hope I can say that about the next six months.
You bring up a good point. There is physical abuse. There is psychological abuse at these camps.
The problem has 3 reasons, I only speak from my experience.
1. The kids are usually not the best behaved bunch to begn with. They are the tough kids, the mean, nasty kids, the kids who get into fights and who’s heroes are the thug-like rap singers and ‘ganstas’. You have to be very firm and drill-sergent like in order to be in control or they’d be having chaos.
2. The people that work at these facilities are often just in it for the job. Especially in the south, where alot of these places are, the economy is not yet back on it’s feet. If you’ve been in the military and you need to feed your family, this might not be such a hard way to make a living. Plus, these ‘instructors’ might be in danger of the prison guard/policeman burnout syndrome. The kind of thinking that has them saying to themselves, “Well, since these punks are all criminals anyway, I’ll not feel bad about dishing out a few kicks or punches in the line of duty, they deserve it the little rats.”
3. Money. If you staffed these places with trained professional counselors at every position, lots of testing and evaluation at every level. It would cost upwards of $5000.00 a month or more, then, only the rich could afford it. The poor people would have to muddle through as best they can. This is sort of what happens now. It was a real financial sacrifice for us to do this. I wondered if I would be better off renting him an aprtment and paying his utilities until he’s 18. It would have been cheaper.
I think the very idea of “boot camps” is bullshit. It’s a quick-fix band aid that does little or nothing to address any of the real problems that is making the kid act like a jerk (here’s a clue - it’s not because Junior isn’t marching enough or doing enough pushups)
At $40,000 a pop, it is obvious that they are only for wealthy people whos kids were expelled from boarding school one too many times (here’s another clue-maybe take fewer trips to Aspen with “New Mom”).
For $40 k, I can beat my own kids thank you very much.
I wholeheartedly believe in bootcamps for troublemakers. However, this *Tranquility Bay * sounds more a concentration camp.
There has to be guidelines and protections for liberties. Yes, these children are sent there for a reason, but as mentioned, these reasons can be quite trivial.
I’ve only ever known 1 person this has happened to (wasn’t sent here, but somewhere similar). He was more a mess when he came out than when he went in. His crimes? Listening to heavy metal and not going to school. He turned out to be quite bright and was bored by school. As for his choice in music… well, to each his own. Apparently Quiet Riot and Black Sabbath were not to the liking of his folks.
Does anyone else feel that “the kids today” are more out of hand than in “our day”? Respect and discipline are missing from many homes. Discipline, including the odd butt spanking, is disappearing - in fact it is becoming illegal in some areas. Sometimes physical punishment is required to bring a point across.
Yes, there is a fine line between discipline and abuse, but for the love of Pete, a smack across the backside now and again is going to do more good than harm if it means the child learns a lesson, making them a more productive and respectable member of society.
As for Tranquility Bay, this place scares me. The lines have been crossed on many aspects and seems to be unregulated and unsafe. Close this place down before any more children die.
The boot camps do offer one thing that many families cannot. 24 hour supervision. A motivated teenager will find his/her way out of damn near any parental supervision. I know having performed hourly checks all night for days at a time, and finding a 16y/o girl missing between 3-4am :eek:
If I want my kids watched 24/7 by a couple of Jamaicans without high school degrees, I can go up to 125th St and pay a couple of them $20 bucks a day.
A motivated teenager must be taught to understand that there are consequences for defying his/her parents.
I’m all for discipline (mostly cause I’m kind of a control-freak) but if I am dropping 40k a year to send my kids away, I mind as well send them to someplace like Choate or Exeter. If it’s just a beating they need, I’m sure there’ll be a belt sale at the local Sears soon.
Look, I’ve never reached a point where I have fulfilled my parents ‘expectations’. Why is this so? My parents aren’t insane lunatics. They don’t expect anything of me, except to live a happy life, whether it be as a janitor or the POTUS. As a result, I love them with all my heart, and even though I am severely depressed 95% of the time, I try to get shit done. My problems are not a result of ‘liberal’ parenting, not at all. I would chalk most of it down to mental illness, which is a very real disease that cannot be cured, at least in my case, with extreme discipline. Read the article. As a punishment for the percieved moral turpitude of the prisoners as Tranquility Bay, they are forced to lie prone, face down, for however long it takes for them to become Good Citizens. According to the owner, the record length of time this torture has been inflicted is 18 MONTHS… think about that. At some point, a person is going to manufacture a facade to end their suffering. Otherwise, they will be there, presumably, forever. In either case, nothing has been done that could possibly be of benefit to anyone. All that it does is satisfy the sadistic needs of the guards. Gee, what a great idea.
People find ways to kill themselves in prison. You could throw yourself off of the top bunk, onto your neck, and have a good chance of death. I have no doubt that would be my solution to ‘living’ at Tranquility Bay. Death is vastly preferable to having my dignity destroyed.
As far as other boot camps go; I think they are nearly as horrible. Some of you have sent your kids there. I’m not going to lie and say I haven’t already judged you, I have. I think you are lacking in compassion, and so wrapped up in your conflict with your children you have let your pride interfere with decency. Perhaps it worked for you. I only know that, were I in your kid’s place, I would hate you for the rest of my life. Be offended if you want, but at least realize that, from the time you sent your child there, to the time he goes to live on his own, all of the “good” things that you believe the bootcamp has accomplished could merely be the result of his or her fear of being sent back. How is that preferable to mutual respect and a loving relationship?
That’s the beautiful thing about the system, Blalron. You would. You would be truly convinced about the error of your ways, and that the camp had saved your life, and tell all your friends. Of course, in a very real sense, it wouldn’t be you telling them this.
It is also a form of brainwashing, Blalron. All the rules are drilled into you, as well as the proper ways of thinking and behaving, so it becomes your new way of life. You will end up thanking your parents and the facility for enhancing your life.
For any that are interested, here are the court transcripts from a case involving Tranquility Bay, including testimony from some kids that went through it.
WWASP and a number of programs that offer residential or wilderness programs are corporately based in Utah because Utah has very few regulations regarding these types of programs. As do several other western states (Montana, Wyoming, Idaho).
Because these are private programs which are privately funded, they often fall outside of laws governing schools, residential treatment programs, group homes, etc.
Amazing, isn’t it. How much of an authority problem do you have when rather than behave in a resonable manner you would rather lay on a concrete floor for 18 months.
