This isn’t a thread about childhood obesity.
A 25 yar old is an adult. And unless he or she is retarded, should be able to understand that if they eat more calories than they burn, they will keep getting fat. And that to get back to a healthy weight they need to burn more than they eat.
Agreed
I’m stating a fact, whether you accept it or not. You (and many others in the thread) haven’t cited a single source (other than obviouslyintuitionlulz) stating that obesity is caused by laziness or procrastination. Nobody has yet acknowledged the fact that a thin person can easily be lazy or procrastinatory, as well. The fact that people are assuming a causal link between laziness and obesity, and forming prejudgments based on those assumptions, WITHOUT EVIDENCE!, means you are biased.
I’m just picking on you because someone who is college-educated should know better than to refuse to own up to their biases. The very fact that you’re being judgmental without any scientific basis for said judgment means you are biased, by definition. We are all biased on certain topics, the trick is not deceiving ourselves about it.
You’re free to discriminate based on appearance all you like, as far as I am concerned–I can’t stop you. But doing so and refusing to acknowledge that you’re biased against the trait in question is a flat-out lie. That doesn’t sit well with me.
You’re actually being too kind. It isn’t bias, it’s prejudice, and therefore bigotry.Usually people have had at most one actual experience with the subject, decided that everyone must be exactly like them, and then when they find out it doesn’t work, they have to make up other reasons like people being mentally ill in order to fit their own preconceived reality.
Of course, the fact that some align them with the mentally ill, which are increasingly found to have biological problems and thus on the same level as the physically handicapped (which are a protected class, I believe) indicates that their ignorance on both subjects is quite vast. And thus you can dismiss their comments the same way you would dismiss a moon hoaxer.
Except, of course, that there are quite a few people out there that believe the same way. The fight against ignorance and for civil rights never ends.
Then again, at least we mentally ill can marry.
I’ve done some soul searching and realized that I’m biased against lots of people. Here are some examples:
When walking outside at night, I’m biased against people wearing ski masks and carrying weapons. I tend to avoid them.
When making plans with friends, I’m biased against people who always show up late or otherwise flake out. I tend to not make plans with them any more.
At work, I’m biased against people who don’t do a good job on assignments I’ve given them. I don’t work with them anymore.
When hiring someone, I’m biased against those who show up late for the interview.
How about hiring based on something strange and unusual like actual skills and qualifications instead of appearance?
The only future behavior you can predict in a fat person based on past behavior is that they will continue to overeat and not exercise. Neither of these things has anything to do with being a good employee. I’m not sure why you are overgeneralizing from ‘‘eating too much’’ to work-related skills which have nothing to do with food or exercise. That is why you are biased… because you fail to understand that the only thing fatness predicts is future fatness.
It depends on the employment situation, and whether I were providing health insurance to employees. Lazy people aren’t universally lazy in everything they do. So, the call center mentioned above: Lazy people can sit on their asses all day talking on the phone. There aren’t a whole lot of performance expectations. On the other hand, if I were paying for health care, I’d try steering towards the healthiest workforce possible in order to control rates, and that would certainly influence my decision on the number of obese employees.
On the other hand, there really are jobs that require initiative. Here we can distinguish between true laziness and slothfulness. Not all thin people aren’t lazy, and not all fat people are lazy, but experience is a perfectly sound reason for having certain expectations.
Not appearance. Behavior.
Interesting. I know plenty of thin people with serious mental problems. Have you avoided hiring those too or is weight your basis? I’m guessing you had a personal experience which set your mind against hiring the obese, lest you be burned again.
In my own experience, your response seems very shallow. I have worked with some awesomely intelligent, capable people with the ability to get things done despite their weight. Maybe it’s because of their weight though; maybe they are focusing on business as a way to avoid losing weight.
Then again, maybe I should just stop hiring people with big noses because they smell so much.:rolleyes:
I’m curious about the people that have said they wouldn’t hire an obese person because they’re lazy and/or unmotivated. Do you consider that the person you’re looking at might have been fatter and is working to lose that weight? Obviously not all fat people are trying to do anything about it, but there are many who are, and it’s a process that can take years. When you’re interviewing a fat person, do you talk to them about it so you can determine whether they’re making an effort?
OT - I read an article about jobs going unfilled. The article talked to recruiters who said “employers are looking for purple penguins” - they don’t want a developer. They want a developer/business analyst/project manager who can do a little user interface design work, and all their own technical documentation. And before you say “well, that person isn’t out there” - the problem is that they are - the people left in the organization after the purge learned how to do four or five different jobs, so you know just a little harder search will drop the “purple penguin” into your lap.
But you are right, when you get 300 applicants - many of them qualified - you can be picky and not hire someone because you just don’t like something about them. And yes, there are protected classes, weight isn’t one of them, but right now even with protected classes, with 300 applicants, 200 qualified, there isn’t going to be any way to prove someone didn’t get hired because they were a black, gay, muslim woman, unless someone makes a really stupid mistake.
Yes. This. In the same way, I find that politically conservative people make very poor employees. They have let fear rule their lives, and their political conservatism is a reflection of that. They will always be a drag on any organization they work with, preventing it from growing, innovating or even adapting to change.
And this has nothing to do with “discrimination” or “bias” in the pejorative senses of those terms. I’m making my judgment based on decisions people have made, not based on an uncontrollable aspect of who they are.
Well, Diana … have you considered that it might be a matter of who YOU know?
This isn’t a valid analogy at all. You look at a “politically conservative” people (not sure I qualify as a fiscal conservative and social liberal) and believe they are that way because they let fear rule their lives and are resistant to change.
But those qualities aren’t a necessary or even likely reason why a person is “politically conservative.” I, for example, am fiscally conservative simply because I think it’s a better way to organize a society. Fear has nothing to do with it, and, inasmuch as I think the federal government is too big and active now, I specificallý want change to occur.
A morbidly obese person, on the other hand, cannot get that way without being willing to let a small problem get big (with an exception for the tiny minority who literally can’t control their weight gain for some reason).
I worked a couple of temp jobs where I was practically the only person not morbidly obese.
Horrible, awful jobs that made two weeks seem like a lifetime… but still, “plus-size” friendly.
Why is she eating other people’s food? That would piss me off, too. Be fat on your own dime.
Are you saying assuming someone who is morbidly obese hasn’t put in the necessary efforts to attain a healthy weight is bigotry?
Really, this isn’t at all helpful to the OP, but you’re presuming that being “willing” to let yourself get overweight has anything to do with handling work-related problems. While there is a very small number of people who can’t lose weight – and this discussion’s not really about that – ultimately unless the job is directly related in some way to someone’s physical fitness, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to base hiring decisions on it. Lots of people have personal problems regarding their lifestyle, their relationships, their finances, or many other choices. It’s asinine to base hiring decisions on those things given that there are so many better criteria available (e.g. work history, references, a good job interview).
Speaking as someone who is obese and has been losing weight for years, it’s frustrating to hear such biases. Seeing someone’s current weight is not the whole story. If you found out that someone quit smoking three years ago, but they used to smoke four packs a day, would you decline to hire them? Probably not. And, for what it’s worth, a lot of people are significantly overweight far before they’re really old enough to make good decisions about it.
All this said, it really doesn’t matter for the OP’s purposes. Clearly, some people have very deeply held feelings that the morbidly obese are not as employable as similarly-qualified individuals without such qualities, but it’s simply not feasible for a person to drop the weight before getting a job. All things being equal, it sounds like the OP is indicating that Mary really should pursuing a healthier lifestyle, but in the end she’s going to have to just keep trying to find a job and realize that there are people who aren’t going to give her a fair shake. People make snap judgements all the time about people based on appearance and comportment, and unfortunately for those of us who struggle with our weight, there’s a significant number of people who really, really don’t like fat people.
Food was supposedly included in the rent she was paying. (Other people have said that she was staying here for free, but that’s not accurate; what I said was that she was paying a below-market rent.) However, my parents eventually did get tired of her eating so much food, and basically not being very helpful around the house. They think she acted overly entitled. Like, she took baths all the time, which drove up the water bill, that sort of thing. Like I said earlier, Mary has been fed take-out food for her entire life and has never spent any time in a kitchen before. My mom thinks people who aren’t cooking should offer to help out - wash the dishes, offer to make the salad or chop vegetables, set the table, that sort of thing. Mary never did any of that, and it pissed my mom off. At one point, my mom told Mary that she should help more, and Mary said basically, “I’d be happy to help, but you have to tell me what I should do and direct me, because I don’t know how to do any of these things,” and my mom refused, because she doesn’t feel like babysitting her. So Mary didn’t help at all.
Anyway. I even think that that would have not been a big deal if she weren’t so overweight. I think it added to an impression of laziness that wasn’t helped by the fact that she also got up at around noon every day.
Like I mentioned, she suffers from clinical depression (she takes medication for it, though) and it seems obvious to my untrained eye that all of her behavior is both a symptom and an indirect cause. She eats junk food to give herself short term happiness and then her weight and poor diet make it worse.
Honestly, I kind of think her dad, who never taught her to eat healthfully or how to cook or clean up after herself, deserves a smack upside the head. Whether or not a BA is a worthwhile accomplishment, she’s also clearly very smart and sweet and it would just be a shame if her weight prevents her from finding success in life.
Fluiddruid–if you found out someone cheated on their taxes, would you give them money to invest for you? If you found out a friend borrowed someone’s car and trashed it, would you let them borrow your lawnmower, or ask them to babysit?
The point is that past bevahior can be used to predict future behavior, and I don’t think that people’s lives are so compartmentalized that their past behavior in one area means absolutely nothing about their future behavior in other areas. Also, I think your own situation here is making it hard for you to understand the general issue. Finally, just want to make sure you understand that I’ve only been talking about morbidly obese people–I wouldnt automatically not consider an applicant just because of a few extra pounds or anything.