Thudlow Boink,
re: "… if I wanted to believe in leprechauns, that’s how I’d set about it. I might not be successful, but I could at least make the attempt.:
Indeed you could, and as you suggest, you might be successful or you might not be. I maintain that it would depend on how your subconscious processed the stimuli that you made available to it. But if you suddenly realized that you had a new belief, it wouldn’t be because you had consciously engendered it.
Ethilrist,
re: “I’m thinking you’re likely to have a serious problem finding a solid, black-and-white answer on this board.”
It think that you are probably correct about that, considering the “discussion” that has been going on. I was hoping to find someone who thought that they could consciously CHOOSE to believe things and could demonstrate such an ability. We’re up to post #80 and so far no one has done that. I shall move on.
Saying one knows there is a God is not the truth, if it were, it could be proven, not just by them, but by all people. One believes what one desires, and doesn’t question it!
From the posting he chose a path based on what he saw as progress to adulthood. It is now fear of losing his ‘hard earned common sense’, and fear of the unknown ‘pig in a polk’ that is preventing him from revaluation.
That path he chose seemed to be a desire to become a adult, and willingness to want to get there, based on teachings and trust of how by other adults. So that choice was at the very least coerced by the adults and society he is in and he accepted and followed them.
In contrast we can see many peoples who still hold many spiritual beliefs into adulthood, and those believes are not hindered or repressed as one becomes a adult.
So in this case I believe it was just the influence of our society that guided him to believe that it was necessary to abandon certain beliefs to be accepted as a adult and he submitted.
As such I really don’t consider that a true choice, but just another form of damage society inflicts on their helpless and trusting children thinking they know what is best for them. In biblical terms this is the effect of the generational curse, where a person’s spirituality was wrongly suppressed by the lie based on fear of their parents is now inflicted onto their child to bear and the cycle continues.
And it couldn’t possibly be because I learned to recognize bullshit when I saw it?
I am constantly thankful that my parents did not inflict “spirituality” on me and allowed me to think for myself.
This is an unjustified slam against James Polk, one of our very best obscure Presidents.
I doubt it, you were taught what ‘bullshit’ is by people thinking they were trying to help you and you being a child accepted it as I see it.
Look at 2 views about Santa:
This one I would take as closer to your view - which is also the world view:
And this one closer to my view and I would put this as a spiritual view:
If you just look at the spiritual view but then only look at what you can see in our physical world you get the world view. But you also get deceptive parents with the world view and by listening to those parents you develope a incorrect sense of what bullshit is as they themselves were wrong.
Peace
You believe in Santa Claus.
'Nuff said.
And I could say the same about you not believing thought I prefer not to play those petty games that you use to debase your opponent when you can’t stand on your own.
I, not you, am willing to challenge the adult mindset and embrace the children’s view, and in doing so I also receive wonderful gifts from Santa and they are much better then my childhood gifts, so Santa seems to appreciate adult belief also.
Congratulations-You win.
I just can’t think of a single response that wouldn’t at the barest minimum get me an official reprimand. I’m just going to bookmark your last two responses and repost them the next time someone thinks they can have a logical talk on religion with you.
I believe you are my largest fan here on the SD
God Bless you 
This is such a blatantly false statement that I have a hard time understanding how anybody could possibly believe it.
Every single time I hear someone make this claim I ask for god to make me believe. I am an atheist. If this worked there wouldn’t be any atheists.
I eagerly await your No True Scotsman response.
Your belief is on it’s way
Peace
How long do you think it’ll take? It’s been almost two decades so far.
As for the ‘delay’ I can only state that even though I understand it is for our good and saves us untold pain, I still ask God why He/She could not somehow shorten that time as it is very frustrating and disheartening to us.
But that said: Belief is a gift I know I can give you and I know I have with that post. It is not from me but only though me. I don’t know how the others you mentioned believed they could give and also how you could receive, but i do believe their prayers have also been answered.
Biblical scriptures also state that it is a group effort, I suggest looking for that group effort in your life that provides favor beyond anything you have experienced so far, new realizations of some divine intelligence caring for you beyond what you can understand possible. I do believe you will start to see hints of this this very night and that will grow from this night forward.
I do request as you belief grows you post it here and also let others know. I also believe your faith will compel you to do that.
Peace
I’ve become increasingly sure of my atheism daily since I first began having independent thought. My belief is doing the opposite of growing every time someone asks to to talk to god and with every post of yours I read.
Did you really just say that you’re the only person that can give me faith?
I think he means only = merely, not only = solely.
If the belief is acquired after the brain has fully formed, in one’s adult years, then yes. It’s a choice.
However, if as a child, one is indoctrinated in an ideology while one’s neurological pathways are still being formed, in much the same way as a physically handicapped person cannot be judged using the same measure as an able-bodied one, a certain amount of dispensation must be afford to the ‘victim’. It’s the very reason why adherents to a superstition inculcate their progeny–lest the belief dies a natural, evolutionary death.
‘Give me your child for its first seven years and I’ll give you the man’ was not coined without merit.
Independent though is a key part of belief also. Both require breaking away from rules and systems that others have imposed on us. Independent though allows us to chose our own path to know ourselves and our heart and learn what works for us and what doesn’t. As such atheism is a common stopping point on the way to belief and I would go further, to knowing God.
Also very common, the question is where is the root of this, when did this trend start and why? That root is typically linked to childhood discouragement in how the God you believe in is presented to you, disappointment that God did not seem to come though, peer pressure to leave behind your childhood beliefs. It is often a conditioned response that when you hear someone talk about God it goes back to that early time when you were hurt, put up a defensive wall and resist.
It was a interesting way I put it. What I meant by it the gift is not from me but from God. But I believe it was phrased that way by God on purpose. And it goes into independent though and choosing one’s way. You can chose to operate and react in life in any mode, such as preconditioned responses by parental, religious, civil authorities or you can do so independently except when you chose to operate in a loving caring method, as that is God. You can not operate in this mode independently, as it is God’s Kingdom here on earth that you enter when you do and all is His/Hers. So God’s Kingdom is inside you, as you have such a ability to act in loving kindness, and around you as you can receive his loving care through others.
When we operate in this mode, God is one with us and we are His and Her child. Though God has many children they are all one with each other and therefor one child. So in the sense of me the person Kanicbird, no god can chose anyone, but for me child of God, yes only the child of God can present that to you.
Peace
Believing is not a fact. Those who prefer truth will not make direct statements,but continue their search, Most people I know who search for truth will not be swayed by the thoughts or beliefs of another, but many do see that belief is not what is truth unless it is proven.