Inspiring writers or inspired writers? Inspired by God? One of the interesting concepts concerning the Book of Mormon and their Doctrine and Covenants is the idea that God will continue to communicate with mankind throughout the ages if we seek to understand. Is James 1:5 a true principle or not?
This is correct but incomplete. Would God communicate with other people in other cultures who sought that communication? Would those people write down their experience and hold those writings as sacred?
It is an individual thing and it happens within. It is not dependent on any book regardless of how we revere it.
If the truth will set us free and we are to worship in love and *truth * then we must diligently seek the truth. That means the truth about the Bible as well, where it came from, what it is and what it isn’t and what that all means. I repeat, there is nothing in Christian scripture to indicate it was ever God’s plan and intention that we have one final authoritative collection of writings. That is a tradition started by men long after Jesus walked among us.
That is good to read. May I suggest the book Misquoting Jesus by biblical scholar Bart Ehrman. It’s a great book about the scriptures put in layman’s terms.
I don’t know the extent of your own biblical knowledge but it’s a big mistake to assume others have not investigated properly. I assure you, there are some very knowledgeable atheists and agnostics on this board. I was a Christian years ago and my own questions and studies led me to rejecting what I saw as man’s traditions that make up so much of any organized religion.
That sounds very noble. The problem is the struggle is only in your mind. Nobody is even trying to shout you down. We’re trying to engage you in a discussion that contains some factual information. Have any?
The rejection isn’t based on religious belief. It’s based on you making factually incorrect statements about the history of civil rights and then failing to back them up when called on your mistakes.
Religious beliefs that are non fact related such as belief in God, or belief that homosexuality is a sin, can be discussed but in the end it all boils down to personal opinion. Allowing people to suppress the rights of others based on their religious beliefs is a very dangerous precedent to set and violates the founding principles of our country. Our own short history demonstrates that very clearly.
When theists vote about the rights of others based on those beliefs it becomes more than a matter of faith and they can expect to be challenged to defend and examine their beliefs.
There are lots and lots of factual details about the writings in the Bible and the history of where it came from that are very relevant. Ignoring or denying those in order to preserve a religious tradition is a poor service to the truth , if that’s what we value.
Perhaps you need to keep better track of your conversations.
While I appreciate a good ol’ fashioned ad hominem with best of 'em, I will having late night for the next couple of days. I am grading essays. Please feel free to talk amongst yourselves. If this is still going on come Tuesday or so, I will be back.
I don’t see anyone trying to limit the discussion, but I do think the religious need to be able to back up their statements when it comes to legal or scientific claims.
For example, when the Pope says that couples should not have sex before marriage and then only with each other after, that is fine since it is a matter of faith or belief.
When he then lies and says that condom use is more dangerous than not using them and actively campaigns against them in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, then that has no place in the debate and he deserves to be called on it.
While I agree that no evidence supports the existence of a god I’m not aware of any that rules it out either.
In fact I think that to believe that the big bang happened for no reason, out of nothing is just as ludicrous as believing that the universe was created by a god who has always existed for no reason.
Also if a universe creating god did exist then obviously he would be above the laws of physics he created.
As for the OP, the bible seems to be so inconsistent and so riddled with contradictions that if it was written by God then he must be suffering from Alzheimer’s disease.
The laws of physics rule out the abilities typically claimed of gods. Of course, believers like to claim he is “beyond” those laws; but that’s just an acknowledgement that the evidence is against gods existing at all. There’s also the fact that given the many contradictory claims about gods, almost all have to be wrong. And the most popular versions of God ( since this is a Bible focused thread ) are outright logically impossible.
Well, you are wrong. A complex entity like a god is a much more extreme claim than something as simple as the Big Bang. And the Big Bang doesn’t violate the laws of physics.
Also, consider the source. God is a religious claim, while the Big Bang is a scientific one; and religion simply has a far, far, far, far worse record of being right about anything than science.
It’s not obvious at all. Without laws, how does it keep from simply disintegrating, changing into something else? Before something as complex as a thinking creature can exist, some sort of laws to provide stability need to exist.
Nor is such a creature remotely likely to be male.
God has done so many wonderful things. He has helped people pass tests, cured cancer in others, helped many thru difficult surgeries or periods of stress. He’s even gotten people jobs and helped the Saints win the Super Bowl. But never ONCE has that bastard healed an amputee. Jesus hasn’t done it, nor has God, Allah, Budda, or Zeus…do the Gods not believe in amputees? I wonder why they ignore them.
I don’t really understand how it does not violate the laws of physics. Something creating itself out of nothing before the concept of existence even existed does not seem right to me.
On the other hand a god who has always existed before the concept of existence even existed seems equally bizarre.
I’m not arguing for or against the existence of god. I just simply do not know what the truth of the matter is and I’m highly suspicious of those who say that they do know - on either side of the debate.
Here’s an interesting article regarding the Big Bang:
That’s not the Big Bang, for one thing. The Big Bang generally involves some preexisting space time, or one or more other universes. It’s more the creation of this universe.
No; God is a more extreme claim because God is a complex entity - infinitely complex, according to most claims - and therefore far less plausible as a spontaneously appearing thing than something extremely basic like a bit of spacetime. God is as extreme, and therefore as unlikely a claim as you can make. Given the sheer extremism of the claims made about God, just about any other conceivable idea is more plausible than the God most people believe in. The universe being created by the Silver Surfer is more plausible than claims that God did it, because God is a more extreme myth.
But the scientists AREN’T saying that they know; it’s the believers that do that. The scientists are just presenting their best theories as of this time. I am willing to say that the believers are wrong, both because their ideas are so ridiculous, and because when aren’t they wrong? Betting against religion being right about anything it hasn’t copied from elsewhere is the way to go judging from its history.
It’s not at all clear that it makes sense to talk about the laws of physics before there was a universe in which they were instantiated. Also, the recently reported Brookhaven experiment shows that the laws change under extreme conditions.
In this type of environment, if something doesn’t seem right to you, it very likely is true.
Quite the opposite, Jesus came to set us free from the written code, as He was the only one who could. He showed us the way, setting us free of the curses that we would have incurred from the written code that He knew existed and was enforced. If He didn’t take the Bible at it’s word, He would not have to show us how we could avoid the wrath. He believed the scriptures in their entirety, as it was part of He faith in God.
From now on I will tell lies instead of the rude truth.
The Bible tells us all we need to know about God.
We know what the Bible says is true because God wrote it.
It’s a lie that God is not good. Why, God is the greatest! Sure, in the Book of Judges it says that He solved the problem of the Benjaminites facing extinction by having them run a holocaust on an entire population except for the virgin girls, who were carried off to be the wives of the surviving Benjaminite males. And sure, this was a solution to a problem that God Himself caused.
But neither this, nor a dozen other atrocities, makes God evil.
And sure, anyone on this thread, YES, ANYBODY, could have come up with a better solution to the problem than God did.
But that doesn’t mean God is stupid! Heck, no! Why God has limitless smarts. It says so… in the Bible.
And anyway, who are we to question God??? :dubious: He’s OUR judge, not the other way around!
There! Wasn’t that a lot more polite?
Trans Fat Og
(I’ve just had most of my brain removed to please the religious.)
What I was saying is that Jesus frequently broke the laws set forth in the Bible, that is why the priests of the day were so anxious to get rid of Him. If he had believed the scriptures entirely and followed them there would have been no conflict between Him and the priests. The Bible says “an eye for an eye” but Jesus says to “return good for evil.” That is just one small example. The Bible was written by men, not God. I am aware that many churches teach the Bible is God’s word, but a simple look at the index will show it was written by men. If you wish to know about God, follow the core teachings of Jesus. Love one another.
basically I agree, but add Jesus threatened their authority as people don’t need them or any authority except God. Priests and others such as civil authorities use fear and guilt to hold people in place. This is what Jesus came to undo and with the full blessing and protection of God, they could not touch Him.
I really don’t care what some teaching by men are, the Holy Spirit has made it very clear to me that it was God using men, acting through men, who have given their life to God, that wrote the Bible. So it was God who is the author, and it shows how God wants to act, through us, if-we-just-let-him. This is not any teaching by any man or any church, but what God has shown me directly and He has proven it to me.
As for the core teaching of Jesus, He set people free from evil, evil Jesus knew existed in the forms of demons, devils. This evil is real and IMHO is a issue you have refused to address and just focus on some of His teachings. Telling them to Love but not telling them that there is evil that must be dealt with in their life for them to be set free to Love.
IMHO you are providing the end point while obscuring the path to get there.
could have come up with a better solution to the problem than God did.