Well, Jesus, besides the crucifixion, how was your stay in Jerusalem?
While I think Big Bang Cosmology and Physics is probably a topic best left to another thread - [thread=203743]this[/thread] is a good place to start when tackling the above question.
Not bad. Made some new friends. Had a nice supper with wine.
White or … red?
I forget.
It said Son of Manischewitz on the label.
I thought refraining from hitting back was heresy?
Wait, that’s 40k. Never mind.
Why does your Holy Spirit tell you one thing and others a different thing? How do you know it s the Holy Spirit; isn’t it just your belief that it is the Holy Spirit? You can believe it is the Holy Spirit, but maybe you are just being led astray by your own thinking?
Jesus ( according to the NT) showed contempt for the Pharisee’s and priests because they tried to live the letter of the law,and flaunted their religiousness. Jesus is quoted as saying, “Man was not made for the law, the law was made for man”. He called the Pharisees and priests, hypocrites,white washed tombs,sons of Satan. He also changed the law many times, and said I give you a new law that is to love one another. He reminded them that there were times when breaking the law was justified, and used David’s eating the Temple bread, stoning an adultress etc. as an example; that is of course if the Authors wrote the truth and not just their thinking.
Humans are still sinning according to the Bible and some still go to Hell so people have no more chance to get to Heaven then they had before Jesus time. Of course there is no proof of an after life so it is all a matter of faith, and using the Bible to prove the Bible isn’t proof of anything.
May I offer a heartfelt AMEN?
I’m pretty sure I can…so…
…AMEN!
OK, I am back. Have we moved the ball forward?
There is no proof the Bible is divine. Despite that, some people think it is. Other people have another opinion.
Anything else to add?
I’d add that many of those who claim the Bible is the word of God tend to either not know or ignore and deny the historical facts concerning the Bible in order to preserve their belief.
How can you say the Bible is not divine? It is also the foundation of our society. Well it was until we decided we were better off without it. Do you notice that whenever the world gets really off kilter there will be a religious movement? That is our world centering itself. Like the start of America and where we are today. We are off center and discussing where we will flee to when our country fails. We left England to set up a society where we could live free of religious persecution. Then we decided religion was bad because it is too hard to follow. Slowly our standards deteriorate until we have a society based on self, looks and money. It is better to steal then be honest. We never learn from the past that if we don’t change we are doomed. The bible shows that over and over but we deceive ourselves into thinking we are smarter then the Bible.
It also is the base for the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous which has saved millions of lives. The Big Book is based on Matthew, The Beatitudes and James. No one knows why it works but it cures a fatal disease. How does it do it? It teaches spiritual principals. The 12 Steps.
It is not just a book but divinely inspired and has and will chart the course of history until the end of time.
How much proof do you need?
The core teachings of Jesus were all about love. If you keep your focus on love then you will see no evil. Not necessary to be against anything when you are for love in its purist form. The end point is the path, and always will be the path. Love is the light to show the path to God. Jesus also taught us to not judge others, to forgive them and to forgive ourselves. It’s all about love, the path to God.
I don’t see any demons, or devils to vanquish unless it may be something like demon rum, or devilish diseases. I wrote a small article on evil once, I will leave the link for you, if you care to read it.
If there is a God who wants to interact with us and who know all, He is able to proof it one way or another to that person.
Here’s one of the reasons why I don’t believe the bible was god’s word.
Let’s take The 10 Commandments - if god REALLY wanted to impress on human beings the importance of these words, what would be more convincing, a couple of slabs with inscriptions that look suspiciously like they might have been done by Moses, or an entire cliff face with the Commandments inscribed in every known language appearing instantly?
Objection: speculation.
How can you say the Bible is divine? Can you provide an example of a religious revival which occurred in response to “the world being off-kilter”?
The Bible is “the foundation of our society”? Really?
Where’s the part in the Bible about freedom of religion? Freedom of assembly? Freedom of the press? The right to keep and bear arms? The right to a trial before a jury of one’s peers? The assumption of innocence until guilt is proven? Equal protection under the law? Freedom of procreation? A republican system of government?
How about freedom of thought? Is that in the Bible? It’s a pretty fundamental concept not only to our society but to all modern liberal society.
None of these are Biblical concepts (though there were certainly plenty of well-armed societies mentioned in the Bible). These are ideas derived from Roman, Greek and British law and philosophy. Sure, the British were mostly Christians, but few of the political philosophers who influenced the founders were men of faith. John Locke, for example, whose ideas formed the framework for the Declaration of Independence, was an agnostic.
“We” did not leave England, Methuselah.
In any case, most of the early settlers left Europe in order to practice their own religious persecution, not to live free of it. It wasn’t as though the Puritan colonies welcomed Catholic neighbors with a cake and a block party. Things would have been even worse if you weren’t a Christian.
The settlers who did not come to do their own persecuting were here for entirely different reasons - to make money, to escape political turmoil, or even just for a fresh start.
Wait, so if we don’t change, we’re doomed, but if we move away from the Bible we’re also doomed? That is change. The fact that you think the people who set up our society came to escape religious persecution shows that you certainly aren’t learning from the past. This is basic, basic stuff - they stop teaching that “escaping religious persecution” nonsense in the eighth grade in most places.
Also, we are smarter than the Bible.
To paraphrase Joseph Heller, why should we take advice from people too ignorant to understand the mechanics of rainfall? People who bartered and kept slaves? People who believed women are an inferior sex, and should be subservient to men? People who were perfectly happy to engage in genocide in the name of their god?
AA’s 12 Steps are no more or less effective than any other substance abuse program, and any neurobiologist can tell you exactly why it works; it’s a support group. Support groups invariably produce better results than individually-focused substance abuse programs.
The Christian elements have nothing to do with how it works.
Why don’t you offer some? We’ll tell you if it’s enough.
Jesus is the path to Love, which is the path to God, as God is Love. It does not work the other way around - that is deception.
You will be judged by the standard that you judge by. If people are held in bondage yes I will judge them in need of the freedom that Jesus offers (for it is not me who judges but the Holy Spirit, who is true) - this is how I want to be judged, as someone who looked back, in compassion, and who God made into the salt of the world, and a pillar in His temple forever - which is what I believe is the true meaning of what happened to Lott’s wife.
It is not true that if you keep your focus on Love you will see no evil, you will indeed see evil, as Jesus did see evil, the Father sees evil, and Jesus made many comments and acted and helped those people by dealing with the evil Jesus did not say just Love, He showed them how by freeing them. Jesus is the only way to Love, and it is a tough road, Love is not the way to Jesus, as Love is God and the only way to GOd is through Jesus. In order for man to live he needs every word of God, not just the certain excerpts that you have been lead to.
Jesus warned about people being blinded, you exhibit those traits.
In today’s society many people don’t know what Love even is, how are they suppose to Love?
This is the problem, you are blinded to the evil that stops people from obtaining Love. You may have been given that Love as a gift, but that does not mean that others are able to come about it the same way. Also demons are caused by lies that people believe about themselves which people can take comfort in. Rum can be one such demon, but so can sickness, believing you have a disease, you take comfort that people realize that you have a know disease, the spirit inside the doctor gains access to you and you take on the traits of that demon spirit. Demons are so very real and hold back people from being able to obtain Love.
Is it being loving allowing people with demons to continue to live with them? What did Jesus do for these people? Jesus knew demons existed.
If you see no evil, where there is evil you have a big problem.
I read it, IMHO it is deception, true enough that most is correct, but just changed enough to lead people astray.
I bless you greatly in the name of Jesus.
Some!
Can you offer any?
Okay, here’s one. If there was darkness over the earth/land (probably meant to be local to Palestine) for hours far away in the lunar cycle from the time of the new moon (which would have made a solar eclipse possible) why was there no record of it anywhere?
Will you object that such a question is also based on mere speculation?
And as long as we are on the 10 Commandments, most do not realize about how many versions there were.
First, there was the version given verbally. See Exodus 20:2-17. These were not called the Ten Commandments, nor were they “set in stone.”
Later, Moses brought tablets down to the people (with only the Decalogue, not the whole Law). Moses became enraged at his people and smashed them. See Exodus 32:19.
When they are issued anew, for some strange reason there is a new version:
*1) Thou shalt worship no other God. 2) Thou shalt make thee no molten gods. 3) The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. 4) Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest. 5) Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks. 6) Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the Lord God. 7) Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven. 8) Neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left until the morning. 9) The first of the firstfruits of thy land shalt thou bring unto the house of the Lord thy God. 10) Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother’s milk. *
This is the only version that is termed “The Ten Comandments” in Exodus.
“And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.” (Exodus 34:28)
This version was to be kept in the Ark of the Covenant.
Finally, there is a version of 10 in Deuteronomy 5, which differs a bit from the original (verbal) 10. For one thing, coveting a wife is separated from coveting material possessions. This is the version that appears in old Catholic catechisms.
:dubious:
- Og