I don’t know if you are being deliberately obtuse or unintentionally obtuse, but giving you the benefit of the doubt let me clarify-in no way am I suggesting that there are two gods. I am saying that the fact that innocents suffer is not evidence that any supernatural entity that you(or anyone else) can conceive of is responsible for said suffering.
The big difference, that you are continuing to deliberately ignore, is that hard evidence for the existence of protons is out there for you to personally examine-you may choose to sit back and be satisfied with just believing that they exist, but you know that you can back up your belief with fact if you really have to.
Your god? Not so much.
Please, do tell us the last time you directly observed the behavior of your deity.
Absolute bull.
You cannot equate the two, because you know that hard evidence for protons is out there for you to personally observe.
Yes i can, and I do.
I observed God’s handiwork this morning. I observed the effects of protons this morning. How is the belief in one thing I cannot directly observe different from the belief in another thing I cannot observe?
Please tell us what you observed your deity doing.
Many Christians (INO, IMO) did unfortunately persecute Jews. They never attempted genocide of them. Hitler was NOT operating from Christian impulses. Indeed, as hateful as some Catholic & Orthodox & Reformed authorities were towards Jews, they also believed the Jews must be kept in existence for Biblical reasons. Those persecuting Christians, also, did so out of a very faulty un-Christlike understanding of Scripture, and thus, were that era’s manifestation of The Whore of Babylon (Rev 17). The Muslims follow a prophet & a book that I do not regard as in any way valid and that I believe to be spiritually deceptive.
And what don’t you understand about Christian understandings of free-will?
Finally, could you diagram that last sentence for us?
I did not observe Him doing anything. I saw the results of His action. I did not see any protons doing anything. I saw the result of their action.
I put forth that what you observed is the results of the writings of Kri Orlandi, a hack author of alternative fiction who resides in the real universe. I have just as much evidence for my theory as you do for yours-none.
On the other hand, it offends me when you continue pretending that there is nothing more than belief involved when it comes to protons. Do you deny that there is hard evidence for the existence of protons?
I have not seen any hard evidence for the existence of protons. Neither am I willing to put in the years of study that would be required to understand the evidence I am told clearly points toward their existence.
I have not seen any hard evidence for the existence of God. Neither am I willing to put in the years of study that would be required to understand the evidence I am told clearly points toward His existence.
It is deliberate, then.
Why do you believe in protons?
I don’t “believe in” protons, and I am not going to play this diversion game with you. If you want to pretend that there is an equal amount of evidence for the existence of gods and protons, and that finding evidence for either would be equally difficult, you are on your own.
Most of us are not that certain of our beliefs, most of us struggle with our faith on a regular basis but every once in a while you see or experience something reaffirms your faith (did you see that America made it to the elmination round of the world cup?)
But you do understand that others observe events that reaffirm belief in their religion, so as a validation measure it is pretty much useless.
Yet oddly you expect me to play yours. It is almost as if you are insecure in your belief system.
This is very similar to the arguments that Stephen Jay Gould makes in Rocks of Ages, which has been very helpful to me.
My “belief system”??
Rather than pretend that we haven’t covered this sterile ground far too many times to count, I’ll just let you pretend that you “won” this round.
If you want to believe that, I will not challenge your belief. If you wish to challenge mine, you know where I hang out.
Paul, if you want to say that you “believe” in protons, the same way you believe in god, I have to ask…at what point do you stop “believing” in reality and start accepting it? Do you “believe” in atoms, for instance? What about molecules? Cells? Simple organisms? Insects? Where is the line where observable things are something you stop “believing” in and start accepting? Because where ever that line is, you can move backwards, through observable evidence, and eventually get to protons.