Such a beautiful and accurate post deserves to be quoted.
Here I quote myself: “GOD wrote His sacred word on the hearts of all mankind – LOVE.”
Like to add something about believing. Action is a reflection of belief. If you say you believe in Jesus and His teachings, then steal, lie, and cheat your fellow man. This means that you don’t really believe at all, you are just spouting words, and wrongfully think those words will make you safe.
In reality you are always safe, remember who you are, God’s child.
No creation theory, or any other theory will change my knowledge. I do not need to operate on faith, as I have seen with mine own eyes.
The near death experience taught me how important it is to live in truth as truth is known to you. To be bravely honest in everything you know. When you do this more truth is added to the truth you own. So the truth is simple, we don’t know how this universe came into being, so why spend precious time arguing about it.
The only thing that really matters is Love, not what you get, but what you give.
No creation theory, or any other theory will change my knowledge. I do not need to operate on faith, as I have seen with mine own eyes.
The near death experience taught me how important it is to live in truth as truth is known to you. To be bravely honest in everything you know and do. When you do this more truth is added to the truth you own. So the truth is simple, we don’t know how this universe came into being, so why spend precious time arguing about it.
The only thing that really matters is Love, not what you get, but what you give.
The only way you can state that “Jesus is the only way,” beyond a shadow of a doubt, is to have been there or perhaps received an informational visit from G-d. It IS harmful to tell someone they are going to Hell, unless they do what you recommend! It IS smug to pretend you have that much specific knowledge about the status of the well-being of their soul! You are not an authority on any of this. You are merely repeating what you have been taught, with no way of verifying whether your teaching is true or false. Since it is contrary to a loving G-d, you would have to prove that it’s true. The Bible is not proof, unless you can prove that G-d wrote it, with no human influence added.
Well I can re-quote all of the previous verses used by yourself and your fellow Christians, but that seems pointless. The Jews do not believe Christ was the Messiah, therefore they reject him. By your standards, hey it’s off to hell they go. Forget about the promise G-d made them in the OT, because Jesus came along and due to a small technicality, G-d isn’t going to honor his previous promises. NT, new book, new rules. Too bad.
Vanilla, it’s sad to see you completely missed my point. I wasn’t even trying to say that you should not be a Christian. I can see how important that is to you. Only that you should leave a little room for compassion and even the possibility that maybe G-d did not construct this plan that is guaranteed to fail to provide salvation for most people. I don’t pretend to know everything, but it is obvious that the meaning behind Jesus’ sacrifice was distorted, either deliberately or in error. Or the NT is not divinely inspired. I don’t pretend to know which, but I know that the other option, that G-d set us up to fail is not true. I have been in G-d’s presence and feel his presence in me. The only two emotions I have truly felt from him were infinite love and also sorrow. He is loving and compassionate. We should be too.
I wish there was some way that the many Christians who project this smarmy smugness could see how others are perceiving them and therefore get an idea why they and Christianity in general are received with such hostility.
No chance at all of me making up another religion. They tend to become self serving and miss the mark altogether.
It is simple, God is Love.
Spiritual law is you will get back what you put out. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Ye will reap what you sow.
There is no justice more fair than this, and it does work. Check out your life and where you’re at, know that the decisions you have made in the past put you there. Want a good life? Make good honest decisions.
Love
ah,but I’ve never told anyone they were going to hell unless they believed what i do.
When Jesus returns,the Jews will recognize Him as their savior (finally) so…how is that a problem?
He keeps His covenants.
Also,it isNOT harmful to tell someone they are going to Hell (or on their way (AC/DC!)
Unless you think its harmful to tell someone to get out of the street because a car is heading for them.
Gawd, Jesus, Buddah, Jehovah, Mohammed, Allah, etc., etc…
Same G-d, different religon. Santa Claus, however, is a slightly different story. Or, is it? A belief system based on an unseen kindly old fat man in a red suit with miraculous powers of flight and spatial control, and with the power to talk to the animals, and to know and see all, and judge those seen to be bad or good by way of a really big list? Now, THAT’S ENTERTAINMENT! I will go on the record and say that the name “Santa Claus” is an extrapolation of the original, “St. Nicolas” of European fame. It seems that some people overheard a Finnish newspaperman talking about Saint Nick and misspoke his pronunciation. “Santa Nicholas” was shortened to “Santa Claus” in more modern times. Or, Jolly Old Saint Nick, the original, could be, as Earl R. Dingman described him in his, “Another Glass of Egg Nog… 'Some say St. Nicholas was a 4th century Bishop. It’s also believed the Christian church made up this person to help spread the fable (Hagios Nikolaos or St. Nicholas, of Myra, the patron Saint of children and sailors who loved children and threw anonymous gifts into the open windows of any home where children lived). '” Indeed. Any way you slice it, it doesn’t really matter what your belief system is, or how many times you see (H)is likeness, if you do believe that is all (H)e asks… My question is this: Who is St. Nick the Patron Saint of, anyway? Oh, that’s easy! The Patron Saint of Shopkeepers and Toy Store Owners everywhere!
Quote the bulldog: “My mind is made up - don’t confuse me with the facts!”
Yes, you pretty much did. Someone who won’t be saved, will be lost. And you agreed with lynn73 who actually speaks of people being damned.
How do you know this? Does this apply to the Muslims too, or only the ones he made the covenant with? Can you cite in the Bible where it says that “Jesus is the only way” except for?
I would agree with you, except you have only heard a story that the car is headed for them. You don’t even know if it’s true. Also, since the driver of that car is someone they have faith in, I think it’s more likely he will just pick them up, rather than run them down. That’s called having faith.
You know, lekatt, I might be one of those skeptics that bother you so much but I have to say I have no problem at all with your philosphy. It’s consistent, it’s clean. it’s simple and it’s heartfelt.
I spoke of it because the Bible speaks of it. It’s not something I made up. If you believe the Bible is God’s word and believe what it says, then you accept it. If you don’t, you don’t. As I’ve said in the past, we have to come to God on His terms, not ours or what we think they ought to be. He’s God, we’re not. And love isn’t the only part of His nature, a reading of the whole Bible will reveal that. We can either accept Him as He’s revealed Himself to us in His word or we can reject Him because He’s not the kind of God we think he ought to be. But I wouldn’t doubt His love just because a sacrifice had to be made. He reconciled His love for humanity with his wrath toward sin at Calvary, that’s love. It’s now up to each individual what to do with that. He won’t force anyone. And to me, not accepting Christ as Savior just because we don’t like the fact that God requires the shedding of blood or because we think He ought to just forgive us with no repentence on our part and accepting what He’s provided, is like cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face. Like saying to God “you accept me as I am, sin and all, and to blankey blank with accepting Christ. I’d rather go to hell.” God will honor that decision.
People think God is all love and no justice.
I suppose they think all real life judges are mean when they sentence people.
Just is just; we are all guilty.
God is even a Better judge, He purposely gave His son the sentence we were supposed to have, so we could go free forever. THAT , my dear people, is LOVE.
I’m sure I’ve said some of this before, but I’m compelled to try one more time, so here it is. I don’t know if anyone but Christians think of G-d in this odd way. This twisted version of love that is based on a reward and punishment system. According to your story, G-d created everything. He created an imperfect man, only so we could either do what we are supposed to, or be damned eternally. He actually created guilt and sin. He set himself up as our judge and is judging us for the traits and sins he intentionally created in us. Since all of this was part of his plan and he knows exactly how it’s going to go, why act like there is some sort of choice? You don’t have one. You only think you do. Enter Jesus which is supposed to be our ticket out of hell. The only thing is, G-d set it up where only a minority could actually receive this salvation. G-d gave Jesus the sentence we were supposed to have, which incidentally that first sentence was also created by him. What went wrong that G-d needed to save man from himself? It doesn’t sound much like a loving G-d’s plan, does it?
When I was a Christian, and believe me it sounds odd to hear myself put this in the past tense, I always felt like we had somehow got the story wrong. But I was taught to feel guilt at questioning any of this. I have never doubted G-d, just religion’s interpretation of him. I believe in this life, everything we’re going through has a purpose. I don’t believe that purpose is to pass or fail. I believe that purpose is to grow, to learn, to experience; to become a more complete soul. And to return to G-d with a full and deep range of love, compassion and the ability to understand selfless sacrifice and humility. I don’t think I’m better than anyone else, deserve more than anyone else and I don’t think there will ever be a time that I can’t learn more and do better. I don’t fear G-d, although I respect him beyond all else. I can’t bring myself to fear him when I feel the depth of his love.
lynn73 & vanilla I don’t understand why you don’t think you have more to learn. Why you think a book filled with words is the definition of why you’re here. You cause G-d sorrow when you’re not compassionate to those he loves as much as he loves you. You are so focused on what that book says that you forget to live how that book tells you to. I am sure that G-d’s intent with the Bible was not to influence people to the point that they are so inflexible, so rigid in their beliefs, that they are unable to communicate in a successful way, with non-believers. It doesn’t matter if your fellow Christians give you a high five for correct content and delivery. It’s how the people you are supposed to be trying to reach percieve you. I wonder sometimes if you think I’m something evil sent your way to test your faith or if you ever realize that G-d is always present and is always sending other people your way, to try and get through the hardness you’ve become? I do have my faults, am pretty sure I’m not evil and as far as I know, we’re still on the same side, I think. Sort of. :rolleyes:
G-d created man to mess up. There is no man without sin. Free will when it comes to not sinning is an illusion. There has been a 100% failure rate at not sinning. Man had to mess up. It was G-d’s will that he mess up. Find me a human who has not sinned and I will agree that we have free will.
I believe you probably are compassionate and not hard. But what you portray, what other people see, is you casually, calmly referring to most of the world’s eternal damnation. It sounds cold-hearted and almost smug to me and have seen others comment on it. Didn’t you notice in the Pagan Heaven thread that a Christian Heaven was not a popular concept? It doen’t matter how you really are vanilla, not on this forum. It only matters what you say and how you say it. Again, it’s obvious that your church is really important to you and I’m not trying to say you shouldn’t be a Christian. All I wish for you, is that you would stop and consider that G-d is wiser than the Christian religion gives him credit for and consider that his plan is probably a lot better than the one you believe he has.
I have never seen anyone comment on here about me being cold or smug.
Have I missed these posts?
Never saw any.
So everyone goes to Heaven cause God is so loving.
What of those who don’twant to go?
If that were true, Jesus died for nothing (and He knew why he chose to die also).
Must sleep now.
Back tomorrow.
Lynn can come by and comment also,I would hope.
She is compassionate and not hard hearted.
I’m not trying to insult you in any way. I don’t think you have anything but good intentions. This is about Christianity’s message. But don’t you ever notice the negative response. There don’t seem to be many people thanking you for sharing or appreciating it much. I’m sure there are many people who just don’t bother to complain anymore, too. I went to two threads so I could give you some examples of what is said after your witness. See below:
I would conclude from even just a few of these statements that my witness wasn’t working and evaluate what would be necessary to be more effective. I didn’t have to look very hard for these and I’m sure I could come up with many more. I came across many of your statements that were so matter of fact and emotionless about people not being saved. If I believed what you are saying and had to deliver this message to people, it certainly would be emotional. You don’t calmly state, “look out that car is going to hit you.” There’s usually a little panic on the part of the witness in that case. I don’t believe your message is strictly true, but it should still be compassionate and loving. I’m not even denying G-d has a little wrath thing going. But I do know he hates the sin and not the sinner.
I rather doubt that any one, given the right information and circustances would pass up eternal life. As it stands though, many people don’t want to spend eternal life with a god that they see as less moral than they are. Although I will admit to having doubts about the NT and Jesus dying for our sins; what I used to feel sure was true is that yes, he died for our sins, but the message was a symbolic message of love and sacrifice. His actual death wasn’t the point and didn’t give you a “get out of Hell” card. It was his life and his sacrifice you were supposed to understand as a pure example. One to try and live by.
