Gotta go with the Muhammad Ali Fan Club here because he (a) is a brilliant physical athlete, (b) is not a moron (a rare combination in sports) and (c) has an absolutely unprecedented ability to piss people off. He’s been my hero since he told General Hershey where he could stick his Draft. 
JB
Lex Non Favet Delicatorum Votis
My vote would go for Wilt Chamberlain.
Many rules in the game of professional basketball changed because of his presence in the NBA. He also accomplished many individual feats (e.g. being only center or forward to lead league in assists, shooting 72% from the field in one season in a time where dunking was looked down upon).
I am extremely impressed with the accomplishments of Ali, Jim Brown, Jim Thorpe, and Babe D. as well. I learned a lot about Jim Thorpe just by reading this thread. Thanks
If we’re not talking about running catching throwing, etc. then it’s Ali. No question. Mmmm, maybe Babe Ruth, but…nah.
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i heard on the radio, some publication awarded it to Ali. oh well, can’t really complain.
We live in an age that reads to much to be wise, and thinks too much to be beautiful–Oscar Wilde
Last night, ESPN ranked Jim Thorpe as #6. But he was once named the best athlete of the first half of the 20th Century, so the remaining 6 would have to have competed after 1950, right?
And they put Babe Didriksen at #8.
>< DARWIN >
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Put my vote in for Ali. #2 should be 6 time NWA Champion from 1937 to 1966 Lou Thesz or NCAA and NWA Jr Heavyweight Champion Danny Hodge.
Hang on… Wilt Chamberlain says he had sex with over 10,000 women.
I think we have our winner.
Without a doubt, Earl Anthony.
Well, the contraversy of how to define best has been tackled, most just said the problem with it, instead of providing a context for their choices.
I personally am going to ignore political and cultural influence. That doesn’t fit in my understanding of a athletic competition. Now I fully grasp the importance of these facts, but they are impossible to quantify and really make no difference on the field of play. For the record, if I chose to include it, Ali would be #1 by a stride.
I don’t think variety is the most important, but is worthy of consideration. Supreme excellence in one field is more impressive than above average performance in several, but dominance in a couple is quite significant.
I strongly belive that athletes today are massively better than in the past for many reasons. Athletes have gotten bigger because of better health and training practices. Sport is a big money venture which makes it a goal for a large percentage of the population, and it makes it feasible to dedicate yourself to total effort and commitment. And the sheer increase in participation and potential pool of athletes make success in todays world more impressive. Based on sheer genetic gifts and natural affinity for sport Jim Thorpe would take the crown. (It is worth mentioning that Jim Thorpe is considered to have sucked at baseball and it was a source of persoanl shame for him, the previous statistic aside)
What is a good measure. Well I see it as this, if you stacked up the top athletes and made them compete in a variety of events and sports head to head, who would win the most events. Using the this meter you must rule out any women, Babe Didricksen was a tremendous athlete and was competitive against men in some sports of her day, but she doesn’t stand a chance against any of today’s men.
To the point, my short list of canadates is as follows, these were chosen based on their dominance in their sport, and the relative demand that sport puts on their athletisism.
Muhammed Ali
Michael Jordan
Babe Ruth
Jim Thorpe
Wayne Gretzky
Pele
Now to match up these people. Babe couldn’t beat any of these people in most events. He could hit, and throw. At one time he could run for short distances, but the fact that he excelled while drinking, eating and smoking heavily shows that baseball isn’t physically demanding. The skills are hard, but so is golf, and i don’t consider them “athletes”. Pele probably wasn’t faster or stronger than these athletes, and his career is based on never using his hands, that limits his ability. Gretzky while only rivaled by Jordan in dominance in his sport (Jordan won more consistantly) simply couldn’t outdo any of these guys off skates. This leaves Thorpe, MJ and Ali. As I said Thorpe probably would stand out in todays competition, but not dominate. Ali and Jordan are comparable in their popularity, cultural influence, influence on their sport, influence on sport as a whole, and success in the sport versus peak competition. The deciding factor is that in my experience Basketball is just more demanding than boxing. I don’t think Ali could compete with MJ in any competition outside of a ring. To pile on the evidence, MJ’s mediocre success in Baseball and excellence in golf show he has potential to excell given proper time to develop.
So there you have it, Michael Jordan the best athlete of the century, or ever.
On Jordan–Bill Russell has about twice as many championships as MJ, Kareem has as many with more MVP awards and Rookie of the Year and etc. etc., Oscar Robertson used to average triple doubles, George Mikan and Wilt Chamberlain (and Kareem in his college days) all had rules significantly changed to make it harder for them. I’m not sure that MJ is even the best basketball player–he might be, but I think that playing during media blitz days helps him.
On Thorpe–do we simply transport him out of his time, or does he get to benefit some/any from modern nutriton, trianing, etc.? I don’t have an answer on this, just I always think of it when comparing athletes of different times.
Thrope v. MJ v. Ali (who wins what, a really subjective guess based on historical data)
Boxing: 1) Ali 2) Thorpe 3) MJ
Basketball 1) MJ 2) Thorpe 3) Ali
Lacrosse 1) Thorpe
Hockey 1) Thorpe
Swimming 1) Thorpe
Ballroom dancing (I’m stretching it, I know, but he won a national chmapionship) 1)Thorpe
Gymnastics 1) Thorpe
I could add more, but Thorpe was known for being very good in all of these (as well as golf and archery).
Baseball 1) Thorpe 2) MJ 3) Ali (yes, Thorpe sucked, but he sucked at the major league level, MJ sucked at the single A level)
Football 1) Thorpe-2 time All-American, pro running back, defensive back, punter, kicker–named “NFL Legend,” Hall of Fame, member of all-time 75 greatest players, called by many (including Halas) the best football ever seen, blah blah blah.
Track and Field 1) Thorpe–beat whole teams as an individual, Pent/Decathalon, competed in Olympics in long and high jumps in same year.
If it’s head to head competition, unless the kill him or limit it to just basketball and boxing, Thorpe should win–even in just those two, he would finish second in both out of the three.
Bucky
The Coyote gnaws …
but he does not swallow.
Pamela Harriman.
Well, Bucky. MJ is going to be supported by most as the greatest B-Ball player in history, regardless of the fact that other players have alot of hardware as well. If we suppose that MJ didn’t take his Baseball sebaticle he would have won 8 straight titles and matched Russell’s Celtics. But this is all irrelavant. This said Thorpe suffers from the same comparisons. Red Grange out played Thorpe in his era, and Halas has been quoted as saying Walter Payton was the greatest all around football player he ever saw. Its clear that titles, stats, and awards don’t tell the whole story, and when comparing basketball achievements its important to note that the average height was much lower amongst the fewer teams which played. This made Wilt and Russell dominant as opposed to their athletic ability.
Point is its all subjective. Which position in B-Ball requires more athleticism? I believe that guard does, if you fundamentally disagree there is no amount of awards that can change that.
IIRC, when Babe Ruth hit 60 home runs in 1927, he hit more than any other team in the white major leagues. (The Negro Leagues did not keep official records because they could not afford to hire anyone to do so, and their schedules were irregular, to say the least.) And when Babe hit 60, he broke his own record of 59, set in 1921, which had broken his own record of 54 set in 1920, and that had broken his own record of 29 set in 1919 in Boston.
I think Babe is the best all-around baseball player there ever was. All of his records may eventually be broken, but each one will be broken by a different player. Hank Aaron broke his career record, but Roger Maris broke his season record before Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire did and it took regular, full-time pitchers to break Babe’s pitching records. (Mark McGwire may break Hank Aaron’s 755, though.)
In other words, no other player set so many different records alone.
But does that make him the best all-around athlete? No. Jim Thorpe is my pick and I don’t care that ESPN could only rank him #7. And Jesse Owens is a close second.
>< DARWIN >
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Omni, I recognize that “most” will call MJ the best. Most BB fans (not saying you) have little knowledge of anything pre-Jordan. Right after Wilt died, scores of people came out saying that he was the best ever–after all, he led the league in assists one year (MJ never did) as well as in rebounds (MJ never did) and points (MJ did that, true).
I think it’s very possible that Jordan became the best basketball player ever, although earlier in his career Bill Cartwright said that MJ was an athlete but not a BB player (couldn’t throw soft passes, didn’t modify his game, etc.). Many of those who observed the game would put in claimes for Mikan, Chamberlain, big O, etc.
Curious–why is guard harder (or require more athleticism) than any other position? I’m not automatically disagreeing, I just have never heard anyone make that claim.
Bucky
Jim Thorpe and Babe Zaharias for overall athleticism. They excelled in a variety of sporting venues.
For my personal favorite athlete of all time, I choose Jackie Robinson. The burden he bore on behalf of his entire race was more than one man could be expected to carry, yet he did, and valiantly. That, coupled with his outspoken civil rights speech off the field and his excellence on the field in the face of blatant and unrelenting racism from all facets of organized baseball make him an athlete who is also an admirable human being.
God bless that man!
Also, Robinson excelled in football, basketball and track in college. So he was a pretty well-rounded athlete himself. But it’s the legacy of his spirit that makes me love him.
Every athlete in any sport played in America today owes Robinson a debt of gratitude.
The Dave-Guy
“since my daughter’s only half-Jewish, can she go in up to her knees?” J.H. Marx
Dave, I fully agree that every athlete and American owes Jackie a debt of gratitude, but that said, it doesn’t make him the greatest athlete, but definately puts him high on the list of greatest people. Also its worth noting that Robinson is greatly symbolic. He was a excellent athlete, but a number of black players at that time could have taken his place (not all good players could have handled it with class, but many could). Also it took an owner and a organization with courage to break the unwritten rules. Not to dimminish Jackie, but the whole of his influence should be shared.
Let me now just gloat for a moment and say, “I told you so.”
I really didn’t think MJ would surpass the romanticism that Ali and Ruth had, but i am glad he did. I am appalled that Jim Brown was selected as high as he was, but for the most part the top 10 is very solid, I’d slightly adjust a few places, but I’m happy with the selections, excluding Brown. He’s top 25 if he’s lucky, not in the top 5 football plyers even.
Bucky, to answer your question. I based it mostly on personal experience. I played alot of pick up games and organized games, and being a fairly good athlete at 6’3" i could cover most positions. If is just much harder IMO to see the floor, bring the ball up, cross over, drive the lane avaoiding big men, or to break to the post and pull up for a fade away hitting both long range jumpers, posting players up, and finishing in the paint as a guard than it is to play center. Really the center doesn’t need to do much on the defensive end except for watch the ball and hold his position against strong tall guys, box out and rebound. On offense the skills are difficult, but not more so than a guards who usually must develop them as well. The post game is a centers bread and butter, and a head fake and a good drop step, or baseline pivot can make you a superstar. All 5 plyers learn these skills, but no center is chalenged to break the trap or distribute the ball off the wing. Just the way I saw things. A center is a guy limited by his size. I personally don’t credit athleticism to guys that are just bigger than the competition, thats not impressive to me.
One more thing. The fact that most “will recognize MJ as the best” is a credit to his accomplishments, and the fact that many know nothing of hoops before MJ is another feather in his cap.
Peyote, I gotta disagree that Jordan and Gretzky didn’t change their game. They changed the game as much as the Babe if not more simply because the leagues they played in are much more established and bigger than in Babes days.
Gretzky transformed the game of hockey into a graceful less thuggish game (no small task) centered around speed and scoring, not dump it in and play defense hockey. Throw in the fact he basically made it a TV sport and an American game flourishing in the Sun Belt states growing 50% in franchises.
Jordan made the game an offensive guard centered game. Brought it into the national spotlight, and made it a commercial money maker. This is obviously a double edged blade, but a huge impact none the less.
Omniscient, not to be snooty or nitpicky, but I didn’t say Robinson was my choice for greatest athlete of the century. I said he was my personal favorite.
The Dave-Guy
“since my daughter’s only half-Jewish, can she go in up to her knees?” J.H. Marx