The greatest sportsperson.... ever?

Great Debates
1

[This became a little longer that I thought it would be! All apologies.]

A few years ago, my buddies and I were discussing who the world’s greatest sportsperson is/was. Before we ended up beating each other up, we had narrowed it down (for a variety of reasons) to Pele and Muhammad Ali. No, we did not have a winner that night.

(Note: From now on, I will be writing it as “sportsman”, because its simply the shortest way to write it. This does not in any way exclude sports-women/-boys/-girls/-whatever.)

Anyways, this burning topic remaining unresolved, I got to thinking about whether it’s even possible to declare a “greatest sportsman in the world”. I mean, what kind of criteria must a person fulfill to be shortlisted, AND, what is that something special that is required to be elevated to being the greatest.

I think it goes without saying that the person must be capable of inspiring joe public when he’s doing his stuff, whether on or off the field. However, other questions I could think of are questionable.

For example, must the sport in question be a global one (therefore excluding american football, amongst others)? Or, must the person in question be all-dominating and a multi-record breaker in his sport? How important is the amount of money this person is able to generate by doing what he does? Or how important the person has become to the sport? Must this person be seen doing social work to be considered?! I tend to agree with all except the last condition.

And finally, if we could indeed declare a "greatest’ sportsman, who would be the foremost candidate amongst currently active sportsmen?Thinkig of possible candidates, I came up with a few names.

Germany’s Micheal Schumacher has been acknowledged to be the best Formula 1 driver ever. He’s broken pretty much every record in the sport there is to break, and is still peaking. Most experts acknowledge that the sport today wouldn’t be half as popular without this man. He is also, I believe, the highest earning sportsman today (possibly ever).

India’s Sachin Tendulkar has been acknowledged as the best batsman cricket has ever seen, barring Sir Donald Bradman (who himself acknowedged Sachin). The best bowlers in the worlds have publicly admitted to having nightmares about bowling to him. He has also broken pretty much every batting record there is to break, and is also still peaking. He is also the biggest earner in the sport ever, and is directly responsible for India being the biggest money generator in the sport.

A few years ago, I would have put Micheal Jordan in my list too. I have no idea about his statistics, but I, and everyone I know, wanted a pair of black Air Jordans. And we don’t really play basketball much in this country. But he isn’t currenlty active. So that excludes him.

Tiger Woods is someone I would also have on my list. He is a HUGE money earner, totally dominates his sport, and is a big inspiration to people all over the world.

Pete Sampras too. 14 Grand Slam titles is not a small thing in an age with players like Agassi, Ivanisevic, and the like. A truly complete player. Again, inspirational too.

So can one really pick out someone as “the world’s greatest greatest sportsman”? And what conditions would such a person have to fulfill?

2

This should be moved, after all there isn’t a great debate here because we all know that Diego Armando Maradona is the best sportman ever :).

3

Yeah, a drug addict really deserves to be called the greatest ever!!

Best footballer though - I wouldn’t argue.

4

I can’t think of any objective way to answer your question. Ultimately, it’s going to boil down to a subjective choice between athletes that are currently dominating their repective fields of endeavour.

Which really answers nothing. Is Lance Armstrong “greater than” Zinedine Zidane?

Even in the same sport it becomes an almost impossible task: Pele, Maradona, DiStefano, Cruyff, Puskas, Garrincha, Beckenbauer? In no particular order, they all had their heyday. Or even between today’s players, who’s “better” Raul or Totti?

How about Joe Louis Vs Ali? Marciano Vs Frazier? Outside our own opinion as fans, there really are no 'right" answers to sports questions like these. Which is why people will keep discussing them till the end of time. Preferably over a beer or five.

:::shrug:::

5

I think the selectionof best athlete ever should be absolutely, indisputably the best ever in his sport. That eliminates Sampras from the all-time list. It’s far from clear that Sampras should rank higher than Rod Laver.

At the rate he’s going, Tiger Woods may well be be judged the best athlete of all time some day.

Although baseball is essentially American, it’s hard to ignore Babe Ruth, who so dominated and defined the game as it exists today.

6

This is a hard one, but I have a nominee for best all-around athlete, Jim Thorpe.

He was a great football player, probably the best in his era, and also a Major League baseball player. He hit over 300 in his last year in the majors.

He was a scratch golfer and bowled in the mid-200’s. He is reported to have been an excellent tennis and basketball player as well.

He also won the decathlon and penthatlon events at the 1912 Olympics.

I’d bet nobody was as great an athlete in so many different sports.

7

Wondering whether “sportsman” carries different connotations than “athlete”? If so, as the OP suggests, the debate ought to acknowledge accomplishments other than solely those reflected in competitive stats.

I am not a big sports fan. I also admit to being oriented towards American sports. But I’ll suggest Jackie Robinson. Pele and Muhammed Ali - listed in the OP - are also good candidates.

Long shots - Babe Diderickson (sp?)? Billie Jean King? Vince Lombardi? Bruce Lee?

8

I would have put Thorpe, who else excelled in so many sports? Well, a woman, Babe Didrikson (or Zaharias, or whatever her last name became). She was better than anyone at everything in her day. I suppose the question becomes best sportsman or best athelete. Two different things. Ty Cobb wasn’t exactly a sportsman, but he was one hell of an athelete. Jesse Owens was both, but he isn’t known for a professional sport, so does he count?

9

december makes a good point; to be the best athlete of all time you have to be very clearly the best in your sport, at least. In terms of sport domination, you would obviously have to name Wayne Gretzky as a clear candidate.

Gretzky is very obviously the greatest hockey player of all time; similarly, Babe Ruth is quite obviously the greatest baseball player of all time. However, I’m not sure you can honestly say Muhammad Ali was the greatest boxer of all time. He is certainly the most famous, and may well be the most IMPORTANT, but objectively speaking it’s hard to say he was really BETTER than Joe Louis or Rocky Marciano. Similarly, it would be strange to nominate Billie Jean King (Navratilova was better) or Ty Cobb (there have been several better baseball players.) And who’s the best basketbalkl player ever? You could make arguments for Jordan, Chamberlain, and Russell, at least.

Maybe we should make a list of Best In Sport:

Baseball - Babe Ruth
Hockey - Wayne Gretzky
Soccer/Football - Pele?
Am. Football - ?
Basketball - Jordan? Russell?
Car racing - Michael Schumacher?
Boxing - Ali? Louis? Foreman? Leonard? Hagler? Who knows?
Tennis - Martina Navratilova
Cricket - Bradman?
Track - Owens? Carl Lewis?
Swimming - Ian Thorpe? Mark Spitz?

It’s just too big a question, to be honest. I could have listed 50 more sports.

10

I wouldn’t say Ruth was clearly the best ballplayer of all time, and I wouldn’t say necessarily that there were several better players than Cobb, and I wouldn’t say definitely that Ruth was much better than Cobb. Ruth changed the way we view the sport, sure, but better than Cobb? Cobb dominated the game in a way Ruth didn’t quite manage to - 12 batting titles, that’s not just numbers, that means you’re better than everyone 12 times. Remember, Cobb had power too, he won a triple crown, Ruth never did. 2 lifetime in triples and 4th in doubles. Ruth was a better pitcher, sure, but Cobb could pitch, and he had speed to spare. And what about the amazing fielders? Mays, Speaker, DiMaggio? the team leaders - Frisch, Hernandez? overlooked guys like Stan Musial (originally a pitcher til he hurt his arm before hitting the majors), the only man to retire in the top 25 lifetime in EVERY offensive category (except steals). Ruth isnät that obvious, and I think that would work in most any sport.

11

Indy highlights a large problem with a comparison such as this. Ty Cobb won 12 batting titles, Babe Ruth didn’t. But correct if me if I’m wrong, but Ty Cobb was after Ruth’s time, wasn’t he? ie, they never directly competed? So maybe all the competition during Ty Cobb’s career was pathetic, and Ruth played against the the toughest competition ever. (Disclaimer: I know precisely zero about baseball.) Even if my facts here are all borked, I hope you see my point. How can you tell if Muhammad Ali was a better boxer than Mike Tyson? If Babe Ruth was better than Mark McGwire? You can look at individual stats, like who hit the ball the farthest, but even that becomes difficult, as things like bat construction varied, and who threw the ball that resulted in a given player’s farthest swing might be important.

All that said, I think Michael Jordan is clearly the greatest athlete of all time, with Tiger Woods a close second. :wink: It’s a testament to their respective greatnesses that I like neither basketball nor golf, yet love watching them perform.

Jeff

12

Shouldn’t championships won count? I believe that some athletes possess the ability to make their teammates better. I think Jordan has played on more championship teams than most of the sportsmen mentioned. I am not sure about Babe Ruth, how many World Series championships did his team win?
Individual sports - Tiger Woods, Navratalova.

I think if you look at overcoming adversity - Hank Aaron, Jackie Robonson, Lance Armstrong.

Sheer athleticism - Jim Thorpe

fwiw

13

OK, I’ll do it.

Somebody has to, after all.

Tiger Woods is not an athlete.
::d&r::

14

Tiger Woods is not an athlete??? How would you describe him if not athletic?:confused:

15

I would argue for Ruth as the greatest baseball player with the following:

He was not just a good pitcher, he was a great pitcher. He has a career ERA of 2.28, a World Series ERA of 0.87

When he was traded to the Yankees in 1920, he went full time to batting, where he, in his first year there, hit 54 home runs. This was in addition to batting .376 and setting a Slugging percentage record that lasted until last year.

Understand that 54 was an absolutely unheard of number. Outside of his own team, there was only one other TEAM that hit 54 home runs.

His career mark in home runs is 44 behind Hank Aaron, of course, Ruth lost about 4 full seasons as a pitcher instead of as a hitter.

He won 7 championships, 3 with Boston and 4 with the Yankees. He totally changed the game, before him home runs were rather unimportant, after him, it became a premier statistic. He was top notch in both hitting and pitching, and could have been a Hall of Fame player even if he stayed a full time pitcher. I don’t know anyone else that fits that description.
Of course, if you just want championships, there is Yogi Berra, 10 championships in 14 world series appearances, 19 year career. Not too shabby…
And please, for god’s sake, let’s not get into a Tiger Woods is/isn’t an athlete debate, okay???

16

Cheesesteak

Have I missed something? Is there some taboo or something?:confused:

17

I honestly don’t consider golfers or race drivers to be athletes. Sportsmen, certainly, but not athletes.

I disagree that the best athlete ever would have to be the best ever at his particular sport.

Michael Jordan is arguably the greatest basketball player ever, but Jim Thorpe is clearly one of the greatest athletes who have ever lived, and quite possibly THE greatest (recorded, at least). There may have been better decathletes, better football and baseball players, better this, better that, etc. But there has never been anyone to my knowledge who had that level of ability in every sport the man ever touched! He was great in every sport, and while there may be people who can run faster, jump higher, throw or catch better, there is simply nobody who compares as a comprehensive athlete.

Tiger Woods is a product of a rich upbringing and the current trend toward specialization. It’s easy to be great when you do only one thing and nothing else. But it’s the truly great who are good at everything. How many NFL players today could play both offense AND defense, every game, and still be as good as they are at their one job? Thorpe (and everybody else of his generation) did in every game he played.

18

I think you have to look for someone who totally dominated the sport in their era - it’s too hard to compare across eras. I’d go with:

  • Babe Ruth, for the reasons Cheesesteak gives
  • Pele
  • Donald Bradman - test match average of 99.9 (ish)
  • Rod Laver (would have had 20+ grand slam event wins without his enforced 5 year absence for being a professional)
  • Steven Redgrave (got to throw a new name in there)
  • Michael Jordan
  • and in 2 or 3 years: Tiger Woods. I have little doubt he’ll make it, but he needs a bit more longevity to make the list.
19

No, it’s just been done, loudly and with rancor.

We can leave it at this: you are using one definition of “athlete,” and I am using the correct one.
::d&r again::

20

My vote goes for Lance Armstrong. Not only does he absolutly dominate his field, he went through enormous stress to do so.