I’m a total gym novice and weak as a tipsy kitten. I want to change this by lifting weights. Trouble is, I have no idea what I’m doing and googling has just left me more confused. I want to create a program to increase my strength. I don’t really care about aesthetics or getting bulked up or anything like that. I only care about wing able to lift really heavy stuff.
Since - as this cannot be mentioned enough - I am utterly clueless about weight lifting, I was wondering if any SDMB lifters could give me some pointers.
Cheers in advance!
P.S. - I’m a 32 year old guy and I can’t really afford a personal trainer.
There are dozens of good beginner routines out there, almost all of which involve using barbells for compound movements. Instead of trying to sort out all the variables for yourself–exercise selection, set and rep schemes, etc.–just pick a beginner routine that looks fun to you. For decades Starting Strength has been a popular routine and is a fine place to start. Buy the book because it will tell you how to do all the lifts properly. As long as it’s a well-regarded beginner program, it doesn’t really matter what you choose. They’re all roughly similar: the major compound lifts (presses, deadlift, squats) using barbells in the 3-8 rep, 3-5 set range.
All you should really concern yourself with in the first months is proper technique, good diet, and actually doing the work. Most people quit (or get injured, but mostly they quit). Get yourself through a few months without either happening and you’re already well on your way to the 1000 lb. club.
Most beginners underestimate the importance of diet. Regardless of your goals, diet matters. It matters to strength because eventually your body mass will limit your strength, so you’ll need to eat more and eat clean. So in addition to learning the basic lifts, you should be learning about how to track your calories.
Three non-consecutive days a week (Mon Wed Fri or Tues Thur Sat) do the following.
Warm up with 1 set of crunch style situps, 15-25 reps, and 1 set of back extensions, 15-25 reps
3 sets of 8 reps in the following exercises
[ul][li]Squats - go down to where the tops of your thighs are parallel to the floor[/li][li]Bench press - grip about shoulder width apart, lower slowly under the bar lightly touches your chest, then press it to arm’s length[/li][li]Lat pulldowns - touch the bar to your upper chest[/li][li]Calf raises - lower slowly[/li][li]Military press[/li][li]Dumbbell curls[/li][li]Bent over rows[/ul][/li]Rest one minute between sets. Try to add one rep to one of the sets until you can do 12 reps for each set - then increase the weight five pounds and start over.
Use perfect form on every rep of every set. Stick to it for six months - you won’t recognize yourself.
That’s a fine program. But a few quibbles based on your goals:
[ul]
[li]Most of the evidence–though this stuff is really pretty poorly-researched–suggests that if your goal is strength, then rep schemes closer to 5 than to 8 are better. The advantage of lower reps for a beginning lifter is also that most people can keep better form with slightly higher weight at lower reps. [/li]
[li]You should have a longer rest period if your goal is strength. The evidence suggests 2-3 min. rest periods are appropriate.[/li]
[li]Similarly, if the goal is strength, you don’t really need calf raises or curls. At 32, your time is probably better spend on recovery, warm-up, or prehab/rehab than doing isolation work. (Of course, if your real goal is aesthetic, then curl away!).[/li]
[li]You should get much more guidance on technique than a one-line bullet on a message board. Whatever routine you do, do some serious reading (or viewing) about technique. For example, on squats, what your knees, feet, hands, elbow, and head are doing are all pretty important (in addition to how low you go). Tons of people injure their elbows because they have bad bar or hand placement. Bench press too is notorious for injuring those with poor technique, often lowering the bar too high on their chest causing shoulder issues. [/li]
[li]Deadlift! It’s a great exercise. It’s relatively easy to learn. It helps with a lot of middle-age problems like low back issues. And it’s probably the least injury-inducing of the major lifts, save perhaps overhead press.[/li]
[/ul]
All that said, it doesn’t really matter. Just get in the gym and do something with good technique for six months and you’ll get much stronger. You can worry about the details then.
Thanks a lot guys. Shodan, that looks like a really good program. And thanks, too, Richard, for elaborating on it and recommending ‘Starting Strength’. I just checked it out on Amazon. Of the 76 reviews, 68 are 5 star reviews, 9 are 4 star, and there’s only one 1 star, and that was just because the Kindle version isn’t formatted properly or something. I’ve never seen reviews that good! I’m going to order it immediately.
I just have a follow-up question. It’ll probably be answered by the book when I get it but I’d appreciate your input nonetheless. I’m a bit concerned about my lack of cardio strength, but lifting is more important to me than cardio. If I were to use Shodan’s program and lift on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays, would it hurt my progress if I chucked in 20-30 minutes of cardio on those days as well? Or should I pick a couple of non-lifting days for cardio? Or should I just leave off the cardio altogether?
Another vote for “Starting Strength.” The problem with most workouts is they’re overly complex - people read about the workouts of professional or very advanced athletes and follow those programs instead of doing beginner routines… SS has very basic, very effective strength building routines explained in exhaustive detail. I’d been lifting weights for about 10 years when I bought it and even so my personal bests increased immediately following it.
Stronglifts also comes highly recommended as another simple basic and very effective program.
The uncontroversial principles for strength are
Compound exercises. Preferably using free weights.
Master perfect form.
Progression. Now some will argue that progressing in weight only keeping reps and set number the same is best and some will argue that more variance in in reps and sets in addition to weight is best but really so long as you stick to progressive principles you will make lots of progress. Both the basic programs listed give very good results keeping it simple and focusing on weight progression only; Shodan’s combination of progressing in reps then weight also would give very good results.
You can do cardio either the same day or on alternate days and despite some claims made it will not interfere with strength gains.
That said if strength is your priority you should do your strength training when you can focus on giving it your best efforts. Not after a run or cutting it short to fit in a cycle session. And do not push so hard on an aerobic day that you are too tired on a following strength day to give your best efforts.
Try to keep good, proper form when working out. That will give you good results and lessen the chance for injury. If you have trouble keeping your form, it’s better to lower your weight rather than fling the weight around to get it up. This is especially important if you’re going to be working out alone. It will be just up to you to spot your form problems. Work out in front of a mirror if possible.
Does your gym have group classes? Usually they are free and provide a wide variety of types of exercise. See if any incorporate weights. One good weight class is called BodyPump, but there are others. Ask the gym what classes they would recommend to build strength. The classes aren’t specifically for building lots of muscle, but they are great for building core strength and endurance–plus you have an instructor to tell you proper form.
Since you’re a beginner, I would recommend doing some sort of supervised workout (like group classes) for a while so you can have someone to ask questions and learn how to exercise properly. That will give you a good base from which you can then start weightlifting.
As an analogy, imagine a ladder which had all the bolts and screws loose. It wouldn’t hold much weight and it would wobble around a lot. But if you tighten all the bolts, then it’s very strong and can hold a lot of weight. That’s sort of like how your body is now. You may not have the core strength necessary to be able to as effectively lift the weights. If you do some sort of classes which help build core strength, you’ll be much better able to lift weights properly and lift more weight.
I have been working with a given weight, adding reps and sets until I can do 3 sets of 15. Then I up the weight enough that I can’t (at first) do 2 sets of 12. Is that a reasonable progression? Should I be increasing weight faster? Like the OP, my goal is general strength and fitness, not bulky but practical muscles.
Roderick Femm, as Richard Parker notes in general most guidelines minimally emphasize a greater amount of lifting at lower rep sets at a higher fraction of 1RM (the amount you could lift one time). Sticking in the 12 to 15 rep range is typically thought of as being better as part of developing muscular endurance and as part of a higher volume mix to develop greater bulk (muscle hypertrophy plans). Strength gains will be greater if you minimally also have sets (that you can just complete with good form) in the 3 to 8 rep range.
Thing is “practical muscles” means different things to different people … most lifters will define strength as max squat, bench, and deadlift. But for many practical muscles is not just a max lift but being able to move the whole truck load of heavy boxes from the truck to the third floor. Your higher rep sets may work even better for that. And for some practical means “power” which is both force and velocity of the movement … which translates into a better swing at bat or punch or a higher jump or a farther shot put. And the Starting Strength and StrongLifts 5x5 do not focus on that sort of strength.
Bottom line: is it working for you? are you enjoying yourself and your results? are you sticking with it and pushing yourself? Unless you have specific goals for specific reasons probably that is most important. You’ll get stronger and more fit and probably already have!
One extra advantage of the SS and SL 5x5s though are that any weight room in the country will likely have people there who know what they are and who are happy to cheer you on. There are whole communities on-line of zealots to each approach and that community resource helps lots of people push themselves a bit more and stick with it a bit more too.
I don’t want to quibble with your quibbles, because you are mostly correct. I recommended a general, basic program before specializing in strength because IME it is easier to add reps than weight. Most of the increase in strength that beginners experience is thru greater neuromuscular efficiency, where the lifter learns to recruit more muscle fibers to a given movement, up to the genetically determined limit. Thus you want to grease those neurological pathways and implant the correct groove into muscle memory.
It is also my experience that men start with weights that are too heavy (women start too light). Better to get eight perfect reps with a weight that is 20% lighter than five sloppy ones with a heavier weight. This is especially so with lifts that involve the lower back, like squats and deadlifts (and cleans and snatches, but I wouldn’t try those without a good coach to help with technique).
I have lower back issues, so maybe I am overly concerned with the topic.
And of course, this -
is completely and entirely correct.
Regards,
Shodan (who when he started couldn’t bench the empty bar for ten)
Agree completely about men starting too heavy and the need to get technique right when first learning the lifts. If you start too light, you’ll be behind the curve for a few weeks until you catch up. If you start too heavy, in the best case scenario you just fail early, deload, and reset back to where you should have started. In the worst case scenario you injure yourself and set back your progress by months. So it’s really a no-brainer to start too light, so long as you’re linearly progressing.
Rippetoe thinks beginner trainees tend to have slightly better form on sets of five reps and break down when they go higher reps even with lower weight, but I think it entirely possible that is just post hoc justification for his preferred program. For myself, I found it easier to learn proper form with slightly higher weights, since a lot of the errors in my form didn’t pop up until the weight got higher. But I think there’s probably a lot of variance there depending on your body, level of athleticism, etc.
I think DSeid is right that there’s not much evidence that it matters. Certainly it’s unlikely that 20-30 minutes of low intensity steady-state cardio is going to hinder your lifting, especially if done after your workout.
The trade-offs seem to start to happen when you start adapting for longer-distance cardio–especially if your cardio is running. In the last NBA combine the highest vertical jump was 38". In the last NFL combine the highest vertical jump was 45". That’s a huge difference among elite athletes, and if anything of the two you’d expect basketball to favor the higher jumping ability. The reason, I think, is that basketball players have to run a lot more than football players. So they aren’t as strong.
So there’s a trade-off in adaptation, eventually. But it doesn’t seem to happen at 20-30 minutes of low-intensity cardio.
I was in much the same boat as you, only I’m 51. Injured my right ankle badly almost two years ago now and the gym rehab for that was the catalyst for me to regain lost fitness and strength and shed some pounds (30 lbs so far with maybe 10 lbs to go). Up to twenty years ago I was a semi-serious rower, so perhaps have a knowledge and tolerance to the routine and discipline required.
I do have a personal trainer which helps me enormously. I got into a bit of a rut about three months ago - apparently it is not unusual to plateau and find it difficult to go to another level.
The solution that my instructor came up with was to gradually - for all my five major exercises - reduce the reps by one each week whilst simultaneously increasing the weight little by little and being rigorous on the timing of rests being sets. Went from 3 x 10s down to 4 x 5s. Then retain that weight and build the reps up again. Am currently on the way back up again at 4 x 7 with minute rests between sets. I am moving about 50% more weight though, which was unimaginable to me three months ago!
I guess all I am saying is the key is making it part of your weekly routine. If you get in a rut and don’t feel you are making progress don’t give up, research and find a way to rebuilt the interest and progress.
Apparently psychologically we are built only to exert enough energy to overcome the obstacle in front of us and you need to find tricks of mind to maintain progress.
Based on the stated goals here, the simple answer is to focus on full-body, complex, and functional movements. Unless your goal is specifically to have a really high bench or whatever, these are the sorts of exercises that will best translate to real-world strength vs. gym strength. By that distinction, I mean actually being able to, say, help move furniture, push a car that’s stuck, do stuff that’s athletic, where the other is much more focused.
As an example, I worked as a mover in undergrad, and one of the guys I worked with for a while used steroids and was a gym rat, he even eventually started going to the same gym I did. Many of his lifts were higher than mine, someone considerably so, but he was AWFUL at moving stuff, as he’d either struggle to pick it up or quickly run out of endurance. There were others there that didn’t even lift, but I was much more comfortable moving heavy things with them.
Exercises to focus on, Deadlift, Squats, Bench Press, Core (upper and lower abs, obliques, etc.), and identify some functional training that works well for you. Really, when you get down to it, there’s a reason that Deadlifts, Squats, and Bench are what you see in competitions because together they require all the major muscles in the body. Really, even if one isn’t particularly interested in raw strength, they’re such critical exercises that any resistance program that doesn’t do them directly or indirectly (ie, can’t because of an injury or other limitation, but does similar movements) is just going to be lacking.
The biggest problem with these exercises, though, is that form is absolutely critical. I see so many people doing these wrong, and I’m fully aware that my own form still needs work, and I’ve been doing them for years. So, it’s imperative to start with light weights (but not so light that you’re not able to execute the move correctly), get the form right, then slowly start adding weight.
And also, all of that said, don’t JUST do those exercises, but with raw strength as the goal, they should be the focus. So, for instance, on a leg day, do Squats, but make sure you also get some work directly on your Quads, Hams, and Calves. On Back day, do Deadlifts, but also make sure you get Rows, Pull Downs/Ups. On Chest day, make sure you get more than just the flat bench. And also make sure you get something directly for your shoulders, whether it’s presses or raises, get some shrugs in, and try to get at least a couple direct sets on arms.
Regarding rep count, as others have said, if your goal is raw strength, once you’ve got the form down and start going for more weight, focus on higher weight, lower rep counts in your set. In that regard, if you’re doing 8-10 of the weight, it’s too little, around 5 is generally a good goal. With the lower rep count, I’d generally advise not just doing 2-3 sets, but maybe even push it to 5+ so you still get sufficient volume. And, obviously, with that kind of weight, make sure you’re warmed up first, or you’ll have a lot of injuries.
As an example, even though I work out squats at 405, I still do my first set at 135 and, in fact, I work up to that weight. Though, my goals are a combination of strength and endurance, focusing on aesthetics, so I prefer pyramid sets and do some more focused exercises.
Finally, if you’re a novice, especially if you haven’t been that active, get a check-up first. Be aware of how hard you can go and what might aggravate a nagging injury. I’ve seen plenty of new people come in and go so hard they either burn themselves out right away or they hurt themselves and thus ends their training until they get a bug up their butt about it again further down the road.
No question that football players focus on high intensity explosive lower body strength much more than basketball players do. I don’t think though that is because basketball players run so much more as much as that they don’t focus on weight training and strength to anywhere near the same degree as football players do and that explosive power is less the key critical strength component for them than it is for many football players. IOW it may be more about what they are not doing than what they are doing.
But that said, despite the paucity of solid evidence, I would believe that it would be hard if not impossible to maximally adapt for strength while also maximally adapting for endurance: marathon training will get in the way of gaining lots of strength.
Of course then there are the fun fitness nerd fights over the place of high intensity interval training in building the cardiorespiratory side of the fitness equation!
Maybe. I would have thought that explosive strength was as important for power forwards as for cornerbacks. Or if not as important, at least similar such that this huge disparity must be explained by them training for different kinds of adaptations, rather than the power forwards simply having better uses of their time.
Again, mostly boring broad agreement here. We are not muddying the waters at all … we can’t have that!
So some more subjects that provoke nerd fights!
Compound exercises do not need to be free weights. A fantastic program can be created using body weight exercises, especially if one allows the use of a weighted backpack or a weight belt as one gets much farther along. For some that more fits what they are looking for as “practical strength” than other choices. Mastering form and progression principles still apply.
And if one defines “practical strength” as the amount of work capacity over a moderate period of time then the “boot camp” approach (such as promoted by the over-hyped and under quality controlled CrossFit programs) can be very effective.
Still no disagreement here. Here are my heterodox beliefs:
[ul]
[li]When programming, priority should be given to program elements that cultivate adherence and effort over any other variables. For example, as long as it’s roughly balanced, exercise selection should principally be based on what the trainee finds fun and natural, even if the exercises are physically sub-optimal for the trainee’s goals. [/li][li]Machine weights should be an auxiliary in most men’s programming. Yes, they have lots of downsides and risks and certainly should not be the main lifts. But for people who are sufficiently average-sized that the machines fit them, they are useful in learning to contract the right muscles (like lats vs. biceps/shoulders, for example). They are also great for varying up a workout without having to spend too much time learning a new movement, which is helpful for keeping things interesting.[/li][li]Contrary to the new orthodoxy, meal timing does matter. Even if the old ideas about a protein window are increasingly discredited, when you eat does affect your psychological state–and that in turn affects your workout performance. [/li][li]The only people I ever see using the Smith machine are beautiful women doing partial squats. Therefore we should have many more Smith machines. [/li][li]CrossFit’s fitness philosophy is more right than wrong. Most active folks’ fitness goals are overly narrow–they would be happier, healthier, more functional, and look better if they broadened their horizons a little bit. The runners should be doing some lifting. The lifters should be able to run a decently fast 5k. Both should be able to climb a rope or flip a tire.[/li][/ul]
