Best film noirs

[Chefguy]

@Little_Nemo

In hard-boiled detective movies like The Big Sleep, The Long Goodbye, or The Maltese Falcon the protagonist is following a code. It’s not easy to follow that code and the protagonist usually suffers for doing so. But generally, the protagonist survives and “wins” in the end (even if it’s often just a technical win and the protagonist isn’t happy with having won).

In film noir movies like Detour, Double Indemnity, or They Live by Night you have a protagonist who breaks a rule. The rest of the story is showing the consequences of that, usually with the protagonist ending up dead. Even in D.O.A. - which is often described as the story of an innocent victim trying to solve his own poisoning - the story starts with Frank Bigelow going to a seedy nightclub while he’s on a business trip.

So both genres serve as morality tales but they’re telling two different stories.

Wiki disagrees with you, as does the general definition of film noir. The essence of the genre is pessimism, fatalism and menace. Breaking rules doesn’t enter into it, only mood. That doesn’t meant that rules won’t be broken by the protagonist, just that the mood is dark throughout.

[astrulukcasey]

Was gone with the wind one??? Times have changed it has altered what i remember it too be lol:eek:

[DPRK]

@RivkahChaya

Shouldn’t the plural be “films noir”?

Films noirs.

[Little_Nemo]

@Chefguy

Wiki disagrees with you, as does the general definition of film noir. The essence of the genre is pessimism, fatalism and menace. Breaking rules doesn’t enter into it, only mood. That doesn’t meant that rules won’t be broken by the protagonist, just that the mood is dark throughout.

Anybody can write for Wikipedia. So you tend to get the popular definitions rather than nuanced ones.

If mood and lighting is the defining feature of film noir, is Dracula a film noir? Is A Nightmare on Elm Street a film noir?

[septimus]

@RivkahChaya

Shouldn’t the plural be “films noir”?

@DPRK

Films noirs.

Yes, this was my intent. I forgot to add one of the s’s and stared in horror when the thread title appeared. :eek: Too bad Edits are disallowed for titles.

[Stranger_On_A_Train]

@carnivorousplant

Out of the Past has a protagonist making a mistake in the past and paying for it in the present.

”How big a chump can you get to be? I was finding out.”

Stranger

[Dropo]

I have long understood the term “film noir” to refer to elements of narrative and visual style – i.e., not a genre - that hit a peak in the post-WWII period.

Imo, Out of the Past (1947), Kiss Me Deadly (1955) and Touch of Evil (1958) are the three films that best exemplify “film noir.”

Other U.S. titles not mentioned, but worth viewing:

You Only Live Once (1937)

Stranger on the Third Floor (1940) – Often called “the first true film noir”

This Gun for Hire (1942)

*The Locket *(1947)

The Big Clock (1948)

The Glass Key (1949)

The Set Up (1949)

Gun Crazy (1950)
*
A Lady without Passport* (1950)

His Kind of Woman (1951)

The Narrow Margin (1952)

The Sniper (1952)

The Burglar (1957)

The Lineup (1958)

ETA: *Reign of Terror *(1950) - A French Revolution-set film noir, and one of the darkest lit movies ever made.
FILM NOIR IN COLOR

Leave Her to Heaven (1945)

Niagara (1953)

Slightly Scarlet (1956)

[Soul_Brother_Number_Two]

I’d be interested in a film studies definition. I’ve always thought of noir as the movies where nobody wins. If the good guy prevails at the end, it’s not noir.

[Hypno-Toad]

It’s funny how the Hays Code actually made Noir darker. Not only were the protagonists doing evil, they weren’t allowed to get away with it. Lose-lose all around.

[MikeG]

Would you consider The Public Eye film noir? I’d argue it’s Joe Pesci’s finest performance ever.

[drad_dog]

@Little_Nemo

Anybody can write for Wikipedia. So you tend to get the popular definitions rather than nuanced ones.

If mood and lighting is the defining feature of film noir, is Dracula a film noir? Is A Nightmare on Elm Street a film noir?

In a genre defined like this was, by foreign critics, responding to various signifiers, it began as nuanced. After that, and US critics got hip, films came into it and were roped in. There were neo and western noirs. All this interpretation is taking liberties with the original idea, which is just being expanded because it was a great idea, and insight. I have no problem with those being noir. But The Big Sleep is noir from the beginning of the definition. It wasn’t so obvious then. Remember that it is a genre being worked on with no aim at all to be one, and no idea that it would be one.

[drad_dog]

BTW someone mentioned Brick, whch was great. High School Noir. Really cool idea.

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

Is Casablanca noir?

While not a detective, Rick has the fell of one.

[carnivorousplant]

@Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor

Is Casablanca noir?

While not a detective, Rick has the fell of one.

I don’t believe that the protagonist must be a detective. The guy in Out of the Past isn’t a detective-just a guy who dated the wrong girl.

Re: Film Noirs, Films Noir, Films Noirs; it is French, so if we get it right, they will change it.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

Blade Runner didn’t make that list??? :eek:

WTF?

@Johnny_Ecks

I recommend Brick. It is definitely a Noir, but it plays with the genre by putting the action in a High School.

@ZonexandScout

Second! A somewhat novel approach to the genre, but very enjoyable.

Aye; Brick was very good and remains so thru multiple viewings.

I can recommend The Man From Nowhere and Kiss Kiss Bang Bang.

Oh, and I don’t like to let a chance to recommend Bunraku go by, no matter how slim the rationale.

[Dropo]

@carnivorousplant

I don’t believe that the protagonist must be a detective. The guy in Out of the Past isn’t a detective-just a guy who dated the wrong girl.

Minor nitpick: The protagonist in Out of the Past was a detective at the time he dated the wrong girl. Your first sentence is otherwise accurate.

[Dr.Strangelove]

@Snowboarder_Bo

Blade Runner didn’t make that list??? :eek:

And Dark City. Is sci-fi just de facto excluded?

[carrps]

@ZonexandScout

Second! A somewhat novel approach to the genre, but very enjoyable.

I just glanced through the list and I don’t recall seeing Miller’s Crossing. Again, it’s a bit different (“noir lite”).

Miller’s Crossing is at the top of my fav Coen brothers films. I see more everytime I watch it.

I also liked Dead Again but I’m not sure if it counts as a noir. It’s not great, but it’s one that I can enjoy watching multiple times.

I was interested to see that The Woman in the Window was on the list. I only saw it for the first time a year or two ago, and, although it uses a trope that’s been overdone (and done badly), I absolutely didn’t mind it in this film. Very suspenseful.

[carrps]

@Dr.Strangelove

And Dark City. Is sci-fi just de facto excluded?

I’d say those two are primarly sci-fi with noirish overtones.

Kiss Kiss Bang Bang is more a parody, but a really fun movie regardless.

[Little_Nemo]

@drad_dog

Remember that it is a genre being worked on with no aim at all to be one, and no idea that it would be one.

I think Hypno-Toad makes a good point. A lot of writers probably didn’t set out to tell a transgression=punishment narrative. But the Hollywood Production Code forced them into following that formula. You couldn’t have a guilty person going unpunished. And while I’m not sure it was an official rule, there was a strongly implied guideline that you couldn’t punish an innocent protagonist.