Just out of curiosity, how would you categorize The Smiths if not as New Wave?* Because IMO, there’s Johnny Marr and then there’s everyone else.
*Goth, maybe? But I think of Goth as a subset of New Wave…
Proto-Twee?
Post-New Wave indie?
ETA: I agree with you about Marr, but can only take so much Smiths. Girlfriend in a Coma is always going to make me giggle. Do you really think she’ll pull through?
Not goth. I’d just put them generically the under college rock. I’m more inclined to accept them as New Wave now (vs my first post mentioning this in '09), but I generally don’t think of them as New Wave or post-punk.
And I can listen to the Smiths all day and night. 
I know of someone, how about Wilkco Johnson of Dr Feelgood, this guy was very much the iconic inspiration for punk guitarists.
Here he is explaining his technique, its not as simple as he makes it look
This guy is truly a legend, at the time of this YouTube clip he had been diagnosed with terminal pancreatic cancer, and had given up on chemo. You wouldn't know it from the enthusiasm he shows here. even more incredible is the story of how he survived, very much a chance encounter.And to see him in action during the '70’s when all the teens were thinking about going punk
You can really see how he pretty much invented the punk riff
They are very hard to categorize; college rock kinda works for an American audience, but there’s no such thing in the UK, so the picture is rather askew. They combined a New Wavish approach with post punk and even early shoe-gazing (How Soon Is Now) and at the same time we’re kinda 60s pop revalists, especially Marr’s jangly guitar playing. And then they became godfathers of 90s britpop, also a big influence on Madchester, especially the Stone Roses. Pretty packed package for one band, but impossible to pigeonhole.
And yes, I can listen to them all day as well, they were one of the few bands that helped me through the wasteland of 80s pop music and I can enjoy them til today (Yes, Morrissey is a weirdo, but an interesting and sometimes very funny one).
ETA: and yes, definitely NOT Goth, not at all.
It’s difficult to pigeonhole The Smiths I think. There was certainly a sense of “Where did these guys come from!?” back in the day. Perhaps it’s possible to say they initiated (along with their contemporaries and near-neighbours James) a new sub-strand of “Indie”?
But really not Goth, although whenever I saw them live there were always plenty goths in attendance.
[quote=“casdave, post:84, topic:517481”]
I know of someone, how about Wilkco Johnson of Dr Feelgood, this guy was very much the iconic inspiration for punk guitarists.
Here he is explaining his technique, its not as simple as he makes it look
This guy is truly a legend, at the time of this YouTube clip he had been diagnosed with terminal pancreatic cancer, and had given up on chemo. You wouldn't know it from the enthusiasm he shows here. even more incredible is the story of how he survived, very much a chance encounter.And to see him in action during the '70’s when all the teens were thinking about going punk
You can really see how he pretty much invented the punk riff [/QUOTE]I only know of Dr. Feelgood in passing - that version of Boom Boom sounds just like mid-60’s Yardbirds to me. That’s a good thing!
I am checking out his How to Play vid - wow, glad to hear he is better given his diagnosis. His technique is very much in line with some “rules” I follow when I play:
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He uses his picking hand as a “flywheel” - like a person riding a bicycle with a straight connection between the pedals and the wheels (i.e., a ‘fixie’) - you MUST keep your rhythm hand/flywheel going.
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You should spend 50% focused on making the noises you want to happen, and 50% of your time keeping noises you DON’T want happening to stay quiet.
I like his little boppy riff in G with the moving bassline, maybe 9 minutes into the clip. Gotta try that!
So…how popular/well-know is Wilko Johnson?
Jeez, watching that clip, I kinda play just like him.
Check this out: Twenty Flight Fingerstyle - YouTube
No pick, flywheel strum/pick hand, dropping in random lead fills.
Sorry for the hijack. I gotta check this guy out.
That’ kinda the point of punk, everyone thought could have a go at it - but to make it cool and rock like that. I won’t say he was the very first, but in the UK he was probably the inspiration to upcoming teenies who went on themselves to become punk guitarists.
At the time, Wilko looked to be an angry threatening figure, aggressive and hard, and not at all interested in twiddly skill laden prog guitaring. It was very much a take it or leave it sort of style.
Dr Feelgood were an absolutely fantastic live outfit, but you could never imagine them doing stadium rock, they were really at their best in hot crowded smoky noisy cramped pubs.
Didn’t see Blondie’s Chris Stein mentioned in this thread. Guess he’s not a flashy soloist, but he seems to have a deep trove of great rhythm lines and licks.
casdave, many thanks for the Dr. Feelgood links, they are fantastic! Just like WordMan, I only knew them passingly and from their only hit from '78 or '79, Milk And Alcohol, which I remember from back then. I knew about their and pub rock’s general influence on British punk rock and always wanted to check them out because I’m a sucker for basic rock’n’roll, but never did. So I was delighted that deezer has most of their albums, and I’m listening to Malpractice right now and have Down In The Jetty in my queue, and it’s great, just great.
I saw a rerun of a German music TV show from the seventies lately where they perform Milk And Alcohol, and I thought: this singer looks possessed! Same in the links you posted above, he always looks like at the brink of collapsing, but has perfect timing. Great frontman. Thanks again for the inspiration to check them out, I made a great musical find once more through the dope.
Bob Mould
Dr Know
Rick Agnew
Billy Zoom
Steve Jones
D Boon
Bob Stinson
Yeah, I gotta check them out like EinsteinsHund. But I will say: everyone thought they could have a go, but his approach is fingerstyle, heavy attack, with a flywheel right hand. That is NOT something everyone can do - as you said, it is harder than it looks.
bordelond - agreed, Stein is a great player. I think he either uses fingerpicks + thumbpick, or is like Johnny Marr; no fingerpicks but uses a thumbpick + fingers or treating the thumbpick like a normal flatpick, using his index finger to hold it, too.
Was Tom Petty ever New Wave?
Yes - Mike Campbell is the greatest guitarist, then.
No - Joe Strummer is the greatest guitarist, then.
No. Not even close.
Absolutely has to be Wilko Johnson of Dr Feelgood (really more of a pub rock/blues band - but hugely influential on the punks that followed them shortly)
DR FEELGOOD LIVE 1975 TV SHOW - FULL CONCERT - FEAT. WILKO JOHNSON - YouTube (the presenter is absolutely awful)
edited to add: I see his name has already been mentioned!
I posted my reply before you added your If/Then statements.
So: you vote for Joe Strummer!
Mike Campbell is so wonderful, but TP&tH’s were never new wave. It’s always funny when I hear about stuff like that, like when AC/DC moved to London, folks thought they were Punk. They were punks, to be sure! But Punk?
Pish, tosh ;). I get the appeal of simplicity, but…Mick Jones in a walk over Joe Strummer, any day.
I think the best of the era was Greg Sage of the Wipers. Not a soloist but an auteur.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b0QJW6tmG8Yeah, I enjoyed Jamie West-Oram. Unfortunately, he locked in on that “clean Fender tone + chorus” 80’s tone a bit too much and his stuff from back then can sound dated. But yeah, great player with wonderful taste.
Fun fact: the lick for One Thing Leads to Another is super-similar to Joe Walsh/The James Gang’s Funk #49.
The Fixx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHYIGy1dyd8
James Gang: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_qHU_6Ofc0