Best Movies Ever Which Require Explaining -- Sometimes, A Lot of It

Cafe Society
1

There’s a poll thread for the best movies ever, but instead of mucking it up with lots of debate, etc., I thought I would start a thread about best movies which need lots of 'splaining. I mean, you nominate “Citizen Kane” for best movie of the 30s, you don’t have to do much ‘splaining. Everybody knows what you’re talking about. You nominate “Yellow Cargo” for best movie of the 30s, you got some SPLAININ’ to do, Lucy!

(Or, to be more to the point, you nominate something called “Leon” as “The Best Action/Adveture of the 90s”, you got some splainin’ to do. I never heard of this film. Is “Leon” short for “Leonard Part 6”?

To that end, I hereby dedicate this thread. I’ll post some candidates separately in a bit.

But first of all I want to call on everyone who nominated anything other than “Star Wars” for “Best SF/Fantasy of the 70s to 'splain themselves. “Star Wars” was so influential to the look and feel of SF that most SF fimls can very easily be divided into “before Star Wars” and “After Star Wars.” Some people say that 2001: A Space Odyssey” should get that honor, but all it proved was that realistic space scenes could be dull. It took George Lucas to figure out that combining realistic space SFX with a “lived in” look for the tech and an exciting story would be s VERY GOOD THING, and that’s so obviously the case that anyone who thinks otherwise – has some ‘splainin’ to do. Because no other film even comes close to it in terms of influence. And it’s not one of those films that only filmmakers and reviewers and extreme fanboys like – it pleased huge audiences, too. Frankly, I think the only way to nominate any other flick for Best SF Fantasy of the 70s is with some trepidation. And some ‘splainin’.

2

I think “Deathstalker” is a fair nominee for best SF/Fantasy film of the 80s.

This little-known B-flick was the first to follow John Norman’s lead in introducing nudity and bondage themes into the sword and sandal fantasy genre, influencing a whole chain of sword and sandal movies thereafter, even unto the present.

Films like Barbarian Queen the 1985 Adventures of Hercules, Amazons, The Invicible Barbarian, Amazon Warrior, Warrior Queen, Amazon Queen and Warlords, however crappy, were all clearly influenced by either Norman’s Gor novels or Deathstalker. Sadly, the trend did not continue into the 2000s with Gladiator knockoffs, which apparently were filmed by filmmakers who were unaware of the lessons learned in the 80s.

OK, most if not all of the Deathstalker-influenced movies were REALLY CRAPPY, but still, they were HEAVILY INFLUENCED by Deathstalker. But a lot of the movies that were heavily influenced by Star Wars were really crappy, too. And Deathstalker and Barbarian Queen are films that are still mainstays of video rental stores.

3

Leon - you might know it by its US title “The Professional”

4

I found myself finding Nothing to Lose with Tim Robbins and Martin Lawrence on a couple nights ago and upon expressing my delight to my roomate, he asked me what it was about.

And I found I couldn’t really tell him since it was about so many little things. About 3 or 4 main plotlines rolled into one.

5

I failed to describe Elizabethtown to my coworkers.
The “High Concept” idea coincidentally started around the same time as Star Wars.

6

I’d say Conan the Barbarian got there first, and is obviously the originator of the genre. I suppose Deathstalker stressed the nudity and bondage (and crappiness) elements a bit more, but they were all present in Conan, too, and actually felt organic to the film’s world. In fact, IMHO Deathstalker and its ilk killed any chance of serious fantasy films being made in the 1980s - they led filmmakers to try and reproduce the violence and titillation of Conan while ignoring its scope and lyricism. As a result, there were no good fantasy films made in the 1980s, besides John Boorman’s Excalibur… which, sadly, no-one tried to imitate(if you haven’t seen it, check it out: it’s right up your alley).

Incidentally, the most influential science fiction films of the 1980’s were either Blade Runner or the James Cameron Double Feature (Terminator/Aliens)

7

2001 was released in 1968, so it doesn’t count.

8

Here’s a movie that requires explaining: Brazil, by Terry Gilliam. The main thing that requires explanation is: what category does it belong in? Drama? Comedy? Sci-Fi?

9

Oh, Conan got there first, alrighty, but I don’t see the sex and nudity angle portrayed at all and most of all, I do not think Conan the Barbarian is a very good movie – not nearly as good as Deathstalker, for all its flaws. The only thing Conan had was some good quips and some excellent cinematography. The film was slow and draggy in its beginning, middle and end, and it danced away from the barbaric savagery of the original Conan stories, and especially from the sex. Oh, there’s a scene where a nervous slavegirl is thrust into Conan’s cage, but we don’t see much of what happens to her … I don’t recally seeing ANY of what happens to her. (Course, the original Conan stories didn’t have much sex.)

Deathstalker established its barbaric cred in the opening scene, where a bunch of degenerate caveman types have a hot babe tied to a tree. They’re building a campfire and talking about who has first dibs on her, when the hero, a muscular guy, arrives. He kicks their collective asses, chases them off, then draws his knife and approaches the hottie tied to the tree. You expect him to cut the ropes binding her. Instead he thrusts the knife into the tree and starts molesting the hottie while she’s still tied up. And this is the hero, remember? Clearly, things were different in those days.

Didn’t see anything in Conan that made its point so effectively.

Nah, what happened in the 80s was a failure of nerve. They could have played up the nudity, bondage, sex and barbaric violence a lot more, instead of backing off as they did. Probably had something to do with the Meese Commission and the ascendancy of them censorious Republicans. Plus, the writing of all fantasy movies was uniformly putrid. The best of the lot as far as that goes is probably Barbarian Queen, which sucked in most respects, but did have an interesting subplot in which a raped character – the queen’s younger sister – gets the barbaric version of Stockholm Syndrome for awhile.

I have seen it, and it was pretty good, but it wasn’t a sword and sandal picture, it was an Arthurian legend through and through. Mostly what I remember was the polished, gleamy armor. Ohh, bright and shiny …

Blade Runner you can make a case for. Aliens was clearly quoting Star Wars in the look of its ships and stations.

10

Oh, *that[/] Leon. Pretty good flick but hardly the pick of the litter.

11

It belongs in the category of “Terry Gilliam movies.” If that won’t do, I guess SF is as good a place as any to park it.

12

Clash of the Titans. Sword and Sandal. Nudity. Predates Deathstalker, and Conan. What do I win? :wink:

13

Nudity? OK, they did have whatsername chained to a cliff, but only as a sacrifice to the Kraken, which I think was going to eat her, which I think harms the sex thing a lot. YMMV.

14

Time After Time. I was one of about fifteen people that saw this cable standard when it played in the movie houses–Well, it’s a movie about H.G. Wells following Jack the Ripper to 1980’s San Francisco in his time machine, but it’s really, really good.

Try to get anyone to believe it.

15

The sacrificial princess is seen in the nude as she is to be dressed for the Kraken, as I recall. There’s a scene at the beginning with the hero and his mother, on an idyllic island, featuring nudity. And the medusa offers claymation nudity. :wink:

16

Now that’s what I call reaching for it. Sorry, no sale. :stuck_out_tongue:

17

Two actual nude scenes isn’t “nudity”? Okay, you’re just making up the rules as you go along.

18

What better way to get people to reach? It’s an outreach thing.

19

It’s a satire, so I think it is firmly in the comedy camp.

20

Oh come now. How can you possibly qualify Deathstalker as a “good movie” much less a “best movie”.

It’s silly, it’s stupid, and while there’s lots of naked women being groped, tied, wrestled, and jiggled, that does not make it a good movie. It doesn’t even make it a decent movie. It makes it a movie with two minutes of entertaining footage and over an hour of blah.

If you want to say “It’s good for a guy who has my particular set of fetishes”, fine. But don’t pretend it’s a “good” movie.

-Joe