Bhuddism and the Extinction of desire

[Lucky]

Maybe I should elaborate a bit more. The Hindus believe in Brahmin, (or Brahman, depending on the translation) which is the universal soul, and atman, the individual soul. It is believed that these are one and the same, but the common man does not realize the true nature of his soul. To quote from Ainslie:

This seeming contradiction between the two concepts was solved by the understanding that the cycle of rebirth is caused by ignorance of the true nature of the Self and the failure to realize that it never changes or alters. Emancipation becomes, therefore, a process of coming to an awareness of that state of being that is beyond process, the identity of atman and brahmin. To have this intuitive knowledge is to become immortal, for “knowing All, he becomes All”. While it is true to say that this search is defined in terms of the escape from the cycle of rebirth, on a higher level it is to be understood as the realization of the soul’s true nature"

Ainslie Embree, The Hindu Tradition

I will give you that, Hinduism being a very dynamic religion with many sects, some Hindus probably have different takes on this, but the idea that one can escape the cycle of rebirth is clearly supported in the Vedas.

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“I should not take bribes and Minister Bal Bahadur KC should not do so either. But if clerks take a bribe of Rs 50-60 after a hard day’s work, it is not an issue.” ----Krishna Prasad Bhattarai, Current Prime Minister of Nepal

[elelle]

Underlying the concept of desire, or attachment, is the understanding of the stage that it is played out on. The teachings of the Buddha point out that life is suffering, because we don’t understand the true nature of being. When we understand what’s really going on, in all its complexity, the issue of striving to fulfill our egos as separate from the whole, falls away. Unhappiness comes from not perceiving the whole picture, so, no matter how hard you try, you still feel separate and incomplete.

One branch of Buddhism is Mahayana, which cultivates thinking of others, both human & non-human, as an effort to get beyond this separation. If you think of others as important as your self, the illusion of separateness begins to dissolve. Or has a better chance.

Meditation is one means to get over that separation. It’s one way to preoccupy the character you are playing on this stage, and hopefully see what’s beyond this particular venue. Oh, it ain’t easy, cause we all really love the story, and want to further our own plotlines.

[egkelly]

Thanks for the posts-I’m more confused than ever. I love life, and want to experience as much of it as possible-maybe somebody like me needs a few more rebirths!

[Bricker]

One branch of Buddhism is Mahayana, which cultivates thinking of others, both human & non-human, as an effort to get beyond this separation. If you think of others as important as your self, the illusion of separateness begins to dissolve. Or has a better chance.

Yes, I should have said that I was describing Theravada Buddhism, which is more or less the ‘original’ or pure Buddhist approach. Mahayana arose roughly 500 years after the Buddha’s death.

• Rick

[RobRoy]

I think we need a real Buddhist here to set us all straight.

The goal of Buddhism is not blissful union with Brahman. That is actually the goal of Hinduism, and as a goal in Buddhism, it suffers from the fact that it too is a desire. This is called living in the heaven realm - “Look at me I’m enlightened”. No you’re not replies the Buddhist, if at all. Not just a problem in the West (the number one problem of practitioners) but a source of cautions in the East as well.

We are so attuned to a desire, accomplishment, happiness mode in the west that removing desire seems scary. To the OP, achieving the desires is NOT removal of desire. It is the cause of your sufferring, the fact that you sought happiness through achieving desires. Interesting, now that you have these things, they didn’t make you happy like you thought they would - good example of what the Buddha was saying, not a repudiation of it. You spent many years developing the “habit energy” (Buddhist phrase, not mine) of achievement. According to the achievement plan, which is not for it’s own sake (like the kitty meowing, mentioned above) but to achieve far off, usually material goals, and it didn’t meet up to the brochure.

It seldom does, and like an addiction, it needs more, and more and more and more. The pitch you were given is that it is supposed to make you happy from that point onwards.

At this jucture you can, among other things:

1. set more goals (make them really good this time, that way you will die before you get disappointed again)
   2)address the issues of goals and achievment altogether.

The second is not suicide or nihilism, but maybe doing the same things, simply because you want to do those things, not for the (I hate to say it, and it is not meant cruelly) selfish, make-me-happy rewards.

In short - to make the drug analogy, which Buddhism does - it advocates no intoxicants, including alcohol. You were jonesing bad for happiness, spent a lot of time and money scoring (time that could have been spent otherwise), scored big time, enjoyed the high, and now have come down.

In the west this is known as “midlife crisis” - and no matter when it comes it is the same thing. The old drugs aren’t working.

When you give on thinking that jonesing for success (even spiritual attainment), you will be free to live in the moment, exeriencing life as it occurs, not in the future or past.

You might still become a millionaire, but you probably won’t write off your feelings in the now about what you’re doing to attain it for the long off goal - you’ll do it in a way that seems fulfilling in itself, each and every moment.

They say the enlightened man is indistinguishable from an ordinary man from the outside (although some sad souls are easy to spot), and it is true in that people who are released (through meditation and inner vision) from desire for things not yet attained, will continue to accomplish great things, sometimes even better than their grasping counterparts as they are focusing on the task at hand, not the rewards.

Buddhism doesn’t say that achievement is bad. Like the bible, the quote is not about the “money being the root of all evil”, but in fact “the LOVE of money…”
Buddhism does say that just being, and being content with the present is okay tho.

That’s one more option that the usual achievement minset which says that only achievement (and even the jonesing mentioned above) are good.

[RobRoy]

For the OP- read anything by Thich Nhat Hahn.

You will find him on Amazon.com among other places. He has a good handle on the American mind, yet was not born here.