There is no god.
The details and beliefs of any particular fantasy friend are irrelevant.
Having said that - I am way more familiar with the Bible than most christians.
I don’t want to hijack this thread, but could you please give a link to a relevant thread? I’m a long-time lapsed Catholic-now-atheist who thinks that the contradiction between Christ’s message of love and the monstrous punishment of an eternal suffering is the crucial flaw in Christian doctrine. And yes, I’ve read the Bible several times, esp. the New Testament, and I did find hell as believed by orthodox Christians in it. Maybe I misunderstood.
Check out this thread I started a long time ago. I was traumatized by thoughts of a burning hell as a child, because I just knew for a fact I was going to end up there!
Posts 8 and 16 you may find interesting.
I was raised in a church that took great pride in its members being “Bible totin’, Bible quotin’” people. (The church of Christ, if you’re wondering.) They took (and I assume still take) great pride in being able to quote book, chapter and verse to support their various beliefs. They believed their devotion to learning the Bible separated them from some of the other Christian denominations, and so they made quite a study of it. In a way, they saw themselves as more scholarly than others. Many in my particular congregation were proud of having read the Bible from cover to cover.
Thing is, as BigT suggests, they didn’t really analyze the Bible except insofar as was necessary to support their particular theology. Or a better description would be to say that they didn’t read the Bible critically. It was just a given that the Bible was “the inspired word of God,” not to be questioned.
As a specific example, I recall a Sunday morning discussion of the story of Noah and the flood, and I noted that the dimensions of Noah’s ark were plainly stated and that a boat of that size simply wouldn’t hold all the species on Earth. This suggestion was met with shock and outrage. The Bible was taken as the literal truth. Critical analysis was just not accepted, and was something bordering on blasphemy.
The common answer to such things as the problem of the ark’s size was “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19:26. (See? Bible totin’ Bible quotin’.)
Contradictions and implausibilities in the Bible were just glossed over like that. But that was not done out of ignorance of what the Bible said. Just a determination to believe every word no matter what sort of mental gymnastics were required.
My experience in the Presbyterian Church is full of analysis, discussion and debate. The Ministers I have listened to regularly discuss the linguistic roots of certain passages, the culture at the time of the writing, and how that can influence our understanding of scripture. We have classes dedicated to single books of the Bible on a regular basis, with references that go into the language that part originally came from.
Whenever someone tells me that they read all of the Bible, I usually like to ask how did they stay awake through the Begats, and did they take notes? 
Like others, I think you need to draw a distinction between studying the Bible and looking deeply into Christianity. As a Christian I believe that God has revealed Himself to humanity through many means. The Bible is a book that records interprets some of those historical revelations through a variety of means: history, poetry, proverbs, personal narrative, etc… However, there are other means of revelation from God: creation itself; contact from the Holy Spirit; the leadership of the Church; inspiration through philosophy, art, literature, speech, and music; and independent revelations to certain individuals through visions and other means. Each individual Christian must decide how much weight to give to each of these sources. Some hold to sola scriptura, the belief that scripture is the only reliable source for accessing God’s truth. In the grand scheme of things, though, only a small percentage of Christians hold that position.
I certainly think that it’s advantageous to read and study the Bible. I remember vividly the first time that I read the gospels while I was in graduate school and the message of the text overpowered me. Jesus offered so much simple yet profound wisdom that answered all of the questions that had puzzled me so much throughout my life. However, I also know that many parts of the Bible are not generally productive for modern-day Americans. I can understand why the ancient Jews would have so earnestly desired to have extensive genealogies of their ancestors or extensive instructions for performing animal sacrifices, yet those things are no longer useful know, at least not for most people. So I don’t see anything wrong with Christians who haven’t read the entire Bible.
Thanks for the link. It is one of the most interesting and enlightening threads I’ve ever read on this board.
How many Constitutionally sophisticated Americans do you think there are in the US?
It’s a lot shorter than the Bible and arguably
is a lot more relevant to most people’s day to day life than most things in the book of Genesis.
People don’t think things through much. Some lack the abilities and skills to do it. Some lack the time to apply complex (or not so complex analysis) needed. Some people do not prioritize the activity.
I believe that reading, examining, and pondering enhances minds and alters perceptions. Engaging in that task with a number of books (including but not limited to the Bible) could change the way that a person thinks. I decline to say what it will change to.
Are you assuming here that the opposite of atheism is Christianity? The first time I read the NT was in grad school despite the fact that I had five years of religious instruction as a kid. I’m Jewish, so the Christian part of the Bible meant zippo to me. When I did read it, as an atheist, I found it borrrrrring and not at all inspiring. Boring except the wacko parts, that is.
Given that the Bible is not history, I don’t think atheism requires an understanding of it - anymore than the rejection of any faith not your own requires detailed knowledge of that faith. On the other hand, if you do believe, it behooves you to understand what you believe in, including arguments against it.
Well, while this is no doubt true, I can’t tell you how many people I know who know next to nothing about Atheism, the belief they profess to have.
These people, like many “Christians”, are using a certain belief for a means to an end, i.e, to fit in and be accepted by the majority in their environment. They don’t investigate truly what it is they profess to believe, and therefore when they come under scrutiny for it, don’t have much to say.
But to answer your first question, (this is a complete guess of course), but I would have to say only about 40% of Christian Americans actually know the substance of their professed faith, regardless of whether they actually practice it or not.
I’m an atheist.
I don’t believe in atheism. I’m in a natural state of mind, the state of reason and don’t have to know about atheism to not believe in deities. And I don’t have to explain my non-belief in anything (I sometimes do when asked, but I don’t have to).
Ha ah, the common atheist respose of “When in doubt, deny all terms and definitions.” The only reason you feel you can justify the idea that you dont “believe” in atheism is because you don’t subscribe to the idea that there is a supernatural world. Surely, athiesm is set apart from most other beliefs, because it goes so far in the other direction of everything else, which is essentially religion. Yet, whether you like it or not, this is what you believe; you **believe **that you don’t need to believe.
The whole idea is a contradiction in itself, athiests just think a bit too hard about it and claim then don’t believe in anything. If “ignorance is bliss” is your policy, then you should perhaps try to think a bit harder about your outlook on life.
And seeing as how probably about 70%(and thats a conservative measure) of all humans that have ever existed believe in dieties, even if we pretend for a second that atheism is true, you would not be in the natural state of mind and reason. Clearly the natural state is to believe that there is some meaning to life.
If you really think that reason is a question of majority (in a historical context), then there is no need too argue with. (And that’s ok, because I’m leaving to bed now)
ETA: You also mixed up non-belief and ignorance.
[quote=“EinsteinsHund, post:33, topic:537564”]
If you really think that reason is a question of majority (in a historical context), then there is no need too argue with. (And that’s ok, because I’m leaving to bed now)QUOTE]
Well…I don’t, but its nice to see you have imposed that idea on me. What I **did ** say was in opposition to your view that being an athiest is normal-- because you would then be judgeing what normal is on the basis of a minority.
The youth of today are a generation of vipers:
Survey: 72% of Millennials ‘more spiritual than religious’
Poll attributed to these guys: http://www.lifeway.com/
I’ve no idea who they are.
Ain’t irony grand?
You do have a “non-belief” in God. You affirmatively believe that no God exists.
It’s magic! You’ve made the previous 500 conversations where we’ve covered this error in logic disappear just…like…THAT!
However I have the sneaking suspicion that this ‘error in logic’ has a certain ‘Shawn of the Dead’ quality to it.
It just won’t stay dead.
Ah-oh. Someone is about to break the rule about not being judgmental!
If my beliefs were based on logic, reason, science, historical evidence – anything that you could really argue about, then I should understand the arguments against it – or at least be familiar with the arguments.
But you know that’s not why I believe. I believe because I have no choice not to.
It’s possible that I might find that two weeks from now the reverse is true: I won’t be able to choose to believe again. That is the most horrible thought that I can imagine.
A well-written scene in a recent television show refreshed my memory on one of the reasons that I love Walt Whitman. (I didn’t expect to hear this one coming from a meth lab.) It does speak to the value of things that are ethereal:
When I Heard the Learned Astronomer by Walt Whitman
Lifeway is a publishing & marketing arm of the Southern Baptist Convention, whose most popular Bible Study conductor/writer is, interestingly enough, Beth Moore.
Btw, let’s clarify that you are being funny- Lifeway does NOT call today’s youth a “generation of vipers”.