Biden's choice for vice presidential candidate

[Buck_Godot]

@Ulf_the_Unwashed

ve campaigned for presidential candidates going back as far as Mondale in '84. In that time I’ve talked to hundreds and hundreds of voters, and I’m struggling to remember even one person who mentioned the VP candidate as a reason to vote for or against the Presidential candidate. “You know, that Ferraro pick sealed it for me…” “I’d be voting for Obama if he hadn’t picked that loser Biden…” “Hey, Edwards is the MAN!” Nope.

I don’t think that any votes for a candidate based on the VP per se, but the choice of VP can reflect on the thoughts and priorities of the candidate themselves. A pick of Warren for example would indicate that Biden might be willing to take up some of the progressive movement’s causes.

I think Harris is a good way to thread the needle of the BLM movement and protests. Picking a black women certainly indicates that he is not going to ignore the concerns of people of color, while picking an aggressive former attorney general should blunt any attacks that if elected Biden will abolish the police. Such attacks are completely baseless of course, but might work on low information swing voters swayed by scary ads.

@monstro

But I wish Trump would go there! There is no doubt in my mind that Harris will tear Trump a new one if he says anything about her background. I would pay good money to watch that smackdown.

I wouldn’t put it past Trump to do this, though. Desperate people will do desperate things.

He will definitely go there, not because he is desperate, but because he is a racist asshole who never passes up a chance to punch down.

[Dewey_Finn]

@monstro

@Gyrate

Personally I think that if she’s black enough for Howard and AKA, I’m not going to argue.

I know the point you’re making. But I just want it to be known that neither of those organizations is restricted to black people.

The statement was also made that she “hates black people.” Seems unlikely for someone who really does hate Black people to attend an HBCU and join a traditionally Black sorority.

[Dinsdale]

@Alessan

And this person had a kid with someone who had also recently moved from somewhere other than Africa, and all of their descendants had children only with people who were not descended from slaves…

Well, wouldn’t have to be multiple generations, would it?

@Akaj

And a friend of mine is married to a Black man who emphatically resists being called African-American, because he’s from Haiti.

But he calls himself Black? Just curious. These labels - by oneself and others - can be confusing.

[Raymond_Luxury_Yacht]

@monstro

Obama and Harris are African Americans because that’s how they choose to identify themselves. But in the academic/scholarly use of the word “African American”, they would not fit into that box. That expression tends to be reserved for the descendents of American-born slaves because these individuals were stripped of the ability to reference an nationality or ethnic origin. Obama has Kenyan parentage. Harris has Jamaican parentage. So they are African Americans through self-adoption into the culture rather than birth.

Should ADOS be used as a clarifier to differentiate between different black groups?

[monstro]

I have no idea what ADOS means.

[Dinsdale]

I figured out “American Descendant of Slaves”

[Raymond_Luxury_Yacht]

American Descendants of Slavery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Descendants_of_Slavery

[monstro]

If you want to use “ADOS”, go right ahead. I’m going to stick with “African American”, though. When I think of “African American”, my mind does not go to my ancestors’ enslavement. It goes to the 300+ years old culture they created, both while they were enslaved and not enslaved.

[Akaj]

@Dinsdale

But he calls himself Black? Just curious. These labels - by oneself and others - can be confusing.

Yes. I don’t know him that well, but according to his wife he considers “Black” a racial term which applies to him and “African-American” a term of origin which doesn’t.

[Raymond_Luxury_Yacht]

It’s not a phrase which I have used, just one that I’ve seen pop up now and again on Twitter.

[MandaJo]

@monstro

I know the point you’re making. But I just want it to be known that neither of those organizations is restricted to black people.

I agree. But to me, the story of an 18-year old mixed race girl living in Canada who opts to go to Howard and, once there, joins AKA, is a girl who identified as African-American and who was interested in exploring that aspect of her identity. It’s a strong counterpoint to the idea that she only puts on “blackness” for political expediency.

[monstro]

@MandaJO:

It’s a strong counterpoint to the idea that she only puts on “blackness” for political expediency.

I know, but it’s a counterpoint to an argument made by stupid people who wouldn’t know a single thing about “blackness” if it bit them on the nose. I refuse to even pretend like they’re making a reasonable argument, especially by citing her attendance at an HBCU or black sorority membership. She’d be black even if she didn’t have this history. Black folk shouldn’t have to prove their blackness to stupid idiots.

[Dr_Paprika]

Not true. Disgraceful attack, like schooool in the summertime. But if he believed it, did this make the Trump supporter like her more or less?

[MandaJo]

That’s very fair.

[ThelmaLou]

@monstro

Black folk shouldn’t have to prove their blackness to stupid idiots.-

Or to anyone, including each other.

I’m thinking of an episode of the new Queer Eye called Black Girl Magic, which focused on a young Black lesbian (18-ish, as I recall) who suffered from excruciatingly low self-esteem, had been bullied, and was troubled for a variety of heart-rending reasons. Karamo (the Black guy and counselor on the team) took her to a dance class that was mostly Black girls in her age group of every hue and style. Some were light-skinned, some very dark, some with natural hair, some with straightened, straight, dreads, all over the map. Some skinny, some zaftig. I think there were a couple of white girls in the class.

Karamo turned to the group and asked, “How many of you Black girls have ever been told by another Black person that you weren’t Black enough?”

EVERY hand went up. Every one of those girls had experienced this from a friend, family member, or just another Black person who felt their opinion mattered one bit.

This episode, like all those from seasons 1 & 2 had me sobbing at the end. (In a good way.) If you only watch one, watch “Jones BBQ.” With a box of tissues close at hand.

I’m sure of one thing: no white person can ever fully understand what it’s like to be a dark-skinned person of color in the USA today, no matter what racial, ethnic, national, ancestral, or other label you apply to yourself. It’s a whole 'nother world that I as a white person cannot grok.

Another eye-opening experience is Chris Rock’s movie, Good Hair. You may think it’s just about hair; it’s not. It curled mine.

[/Returning thread to the regularly scheduled topic.]

[monstro]

@ThelmaLou

Or to anyone, including each other.

Black people can be idiots too.

But I’ll say this since you’ve brought up the topic: sometimes black people can perceive themselves to be “not black enough” for their own bullshit reasons. Just like it is not uncommon for girls to go through a “not like the other girls” phase, it isn’t unusual for black kids to go through a “not like other black people” phase. But whereas “not like other girls” are always talking about their specialness (to an annoying degree), “not like other black people” tend to be on the down-low. “I like anime, science-fiction, and heavy metal. These aren’t black things, so I can’t talk about them without other black people looking at me strange. So let me keep my mouth shut about them…”

Meanwhile, the black people whose judgement they are afraid of are into similar things. They just aren’t talking about it because they too are afraid of being judged.

1 out of 10 black people play the “not black enough” card. 9 out of 10 people don’t. But it’s that 10% that everyone is afraid of. It’s funny-not-funny.

[kenobi_65]

@monstro

But whereas “not like other girls” are always talking about their specialness (to an annoying degree), “not like other black people” tend to be on the down-low. “I like anime, science-fiction, and heavy metal. These aren’t black things, so I can’t talk about them without other black people looking at me strange. So let me keep my mouth shut about them…”

Back in the '90s, my administrative assistant was a young African-American woman (at that time, she was probably in her mid 20s). I’m a big Star Wars nerd (in case anyone here hasn’t figured that out by now ), and I had a couple of Star Wars toys on my desk. One day, she was in my office, and we were talking about other things, when she said to me, in a quiet voice, “I’m a Star Wars fan, too. Not many people know that.”

[MandaJo]

@monstro

1 out of 10 black people play the “not black enough” card. 9 out of 10 people don’t. But it’s that 10% that everyone is afraid of. It’s funny-not-funny.

This is also used to fuel the whole “There’s no implicit bias, it’s Black Culture holding them back” argument. I can’t tell you how many white people I’ve had repeat me a story about how a friend of a friend was a teacher at a black school and the kids there were afraid to achieve because they’d get teased for “acting white”. Whether or not this ever happens, white people who are defending the status quo love the idea that it does, because it reinforces the narrative that the problems of the black community are either 1) black people really are inherently low achieving, and they know it. and/or 2) the only barriers to black achievement are the ones they put on themselves.

[Dinsdale]

Just strikes me as so ridiculous - and of questionable use. Other than Obama, we have NEVER had a Pres/VP who was EITHER non-white or non-male. Now that we have an obviously non-white female as potential VP, some idiots complain that she’s not the right kind of non-Black.

At this point, my concern would be getting THESE 2 elected, and encouraging them to name a diverse leadership team of women, non-whites, non-straights … - and overall - YOUNG!

[monstro]

As a kid, I got clowned all the time for “speaking white” or “talking proper”. But no kid ever made fun of me for being a smarty pants who made good grades. So yeah, I’ve always believed the “acting white” trope is a bunch of BS.

(Being accused of “speaking white” didn’t bother me none because even I had to acknowledge its truth. My parents are from Indiana and we kids (except for my brother for some reason) all inherited their bland speech patterns. Damn Hoosiers!)