Source: CNet News - Feb 10, 2005
Are we now so paranoid since 9/11 that we may soon hear, “Identity Papers!! Now!!” in the Land of the Once was Free and the now Home of the Whoopass?
Are MIBs not far behind??
WTF is going on??
Real ID Act as recorded by Thomas.
After Condi’s speech about Iran, the little sermonette I’ve been getting in the Pit from self-styled conservatives who evidently think no one deserves to draw Social Security, and now this, give me one more encroachment on what America has stood for pre 1/20/2001, and I’ll move for the immediate and indefinite suspension of Godwin’s Law.
“Those who would bargain freedom for security, will find that they have neither.”
“They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” – Ben Franklin
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” – Herman Goering
“I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.” – James Madison
“If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.” – James Madison
Who is going to pay for these ID cards? It seems to me that the Feds would be forced to foot the cost otherwise we’d just have another unfunded mandate.
Marc
For better or for worse, there are way too many Left Behinders and fundamentalists for such an act to gain much traction in the US.
Silly quotes aside, what the heck is the problem with a modern ID system? It’s a bit odd to pretend that we are all swaggering mountain-men, living free from society and the governance that it brings. Any modern society needs ID, and if the technology exists to raise the standards of that ID (regarding identity verification, identity theft, et cetera) it only makes sense to adopt it.
Heck, even the ACLU is making a good argument for me to support this measure: (from the OP lined article)
Between Driver’s Photo licenses, Social Security cards, Draft/Military ID, private corporate cards, & computer-based marketing/credit data, we’re already there, just totally disorganized.
Perhaps, just perhaps the states who gave ID’s to illegal immigrants had something to do with this.
It’s like Bizarro-world in here. The staunch, cave-dwelling conservatives who would have had honest-to-Og flames belching out of their ears if this had been proposed by the Clinton White House are all patting themselves on the back and congratulating each other for voting for a man who’s making America safer.
How did that Kool-Aid taste, guys?
What’s going on is modern life.
What are you afraid of exactly? Or do you never use a bank, cell phone, medical insurance, etc?
Could someone please explain to me why a national ID card is sinister, while having to use a Social Security card or State issued ID is not?
While Duckster makes valid points (by proxy, but valid nonetheless), I too must ask what’s so bad about a national ID card. We Swedes have one and haven’t suffered from it yet. I believe most developed countries have one.
Why is it that the same people that point to the socialized medical plans of Europe and insist we are behind the times if we fail to adopt something similar don’t seem to notice that those countries all have a national ID card system? We shouldn’t borrow that idea, I guess, just the one where no one has to pay for medical care.
Yes, why not? And laws requiring us to carry them with us at all time. And perhaps built in gps locators. And laws requiring us to surrender them to any government agent on demand. Perhaps have our National ID number tattooed on our wrists, to prevent identity fraud. Implanted chips would be more efficient.
And a central computer system, where honest free citizens would file their travel itineraries, so that the evil enemies would be easier to find. Those suspected of unamerican activities could be flagged, and followed much easier.
“I have here in my hand, a list of known Communist sympathizers.”
We have, once again, become a nation of cowards. And once again, the Republican party has taken the lead.
Now I understand what Conservative means.
Tris
“The people have always some champion whom they set over them and nurse into greatness…This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector.” ~ Plato ~
Triskadecamus, I have a nice little slope for you here. It’s a bit slippery, though, so watch your step.
Seriously, why is a national ID card so bad while other forms of ID are acceptable? Or aren’t they?
I don’t carry an ID card. I carry a driver’s license, if I drive. How good a reason do I need to have to object to the imposition of this infringement on my rights? Calling it a slippery slope doesn’t change the fact that there is a progression in the intrusion of the Government into the privacy of the individual, and any objection requires a defense, and an argument.
Who gave the right to the government to require me to have proof of my identity? What article in the Constitution permits it? Why must I have justification to recognize the first steps of tyranny, and why must I pretend that it doesn’t make the next step easier? What benefit is there to me in having an ID card issued by the Government? I know who I am.
And it isn’t the first step. Wave the terrorist label at me, and you can deny all sorts of rights in the holy name of National Security. Especially if my name is Amahd. And those rights are specifically protected by the Constitution and Bill of rights, yet still holding people without trials is the preferred choice of my government, when they can get away with it. And the Republican Party is guarding their flank at every opportunity, because power is more important than principles.
Am I the only one who remembers when the Republicans screamed and hollered about the use of Social Security numbers for identification purposes? Are the refutations about slippery slopes only applicable to out of power party arguments? Perhaps it’s lack of imagination. The Conservatives cannot imagine loosing control of the power they are creating.
Tris
“The problems that exist in the world today cannot be solved by the level of thinking that created them.” ~ Albert Einstein ~
I lived in France, which has a national ID card system, for ten years and never noted any particular abuses of the system by the government, nor did I hear any particular complaint from the citizens I talked to. Here, if anyone was really looking for me I’d be pretty easy to find, with or without a national ID card. I have to consider this not much to get excited about.
Absolutely, and this I agree totally with. I have in fact started at least two threads on the subject.
However, I feel compelled to point out the following:
Being abducted and detained without probable cause, without access to a lawyer, without a fair trial, without ability to contest your detention: big deal.
National ID card: not a big deal.
If it is no big deal then it shouldn’t matter if we oppose it.