Big Brother Wants To Know Who & Where You Are Passes House

[BrainGlutton]

@Steve MB

Not at all. For use as an ID on the few occasions on which an ID may be legitimately required it can be quite bulky – and should be quite bulky, to prevent the sort of mission creep that sets in when officials (government and otherwise) assume that people are going to just routinely carry it.

So what’s wrong with “mission creep”?

[Spoke]

I would feel less free if I knew that my movements might be monitored by the federal government. This card, at the very least, facilitates such tracking.

[Steve_MB]

@BrainGlutton

So what’s wrong with “mission creep”?

Failure to establish barriers against mission creep is either careless (if you merely failed to think about the issue) or dishonest (if you want the results of “mission creep” without subjecting them to public debate up front*).

Since the former cannot be applicable (I’ve already brought the matter to your attention) and the latter presumably is not (I’m willing to assume intellectual integrity on the part of my fellow Dopers), the debate turns not to whether to prevent mission creep, but the exact mechanisms for doing so. Anybody got a better idea than making the document more an ID Brick than an ID Card?

*(I will not hijack this thread into a commentary on Dubya. I will not turn this thread into a commentary on Dubya. I will not turn this thread into a commentary on Dubya…)

[BrainGlutton]

@Steve MB

Failure to establish barriers against mission creep is either careless (if you merely failed to think about the issue) or dishonest (if you want the results of “mission creep” without subjecting them to public debate up front*).

:dubious: Or it could just be the result of not being all that worried about “mission creep.” You cited the way we use the Social Security number for identifying purposes as an example of “mission creep” – and frankly, I just don’t see any down side to that.* You say “mission creep,” I say “adaptation of existing mechanisms in response to changing social circumstances.” IOW, a good thing.

@Steve MB

Since the former cannot be applicable (I’ve already brought the matter to your attention) and the latter presumably is not (I’m willing to assume intellectual integrity on the part of my fellow Dopers), the debate turns not to whether to prevent mission creep, but the exact mechanisms for doing so. Anybody got a better idea than making the document more an ID Brick than an ID Card?

See post 31, above. Of course, that would require a constitutional amendment. Short of that, whatever legislation creates the national ID card could also specify what it can and can’t be used for, assuming that’s a problem.
*When my grandfather was first assigned a Social Security number, he came home and bitched, “They put a number on me!” :rolleyes: But it never was any practical inconvenience to him, and of course he wasn’t too proud to draw SS benefits when he reached retirement age.

[BrainGlutton]

I still think concern over “mission creep” WRT a national ID card is silly, but I couldn’t resist sharing this tidbit from the “Jokes” page of Robert Anton Wilson’s website. (RAW is a small-l libertarian. He once wrote of having no choices he could conscientiously support in the 1980 presidential election, “Ideologically, I suppose my choice should have been Ed Clark, but I’m not that kind of Libertarian. I don’t hate poor people.”)

From http://www.rawilson.com/jokes.shtml:

From: hondalover11279
To: Aaron Leitch

		Operator: Thank you for calling Pizza
		Hut. May I have your national ID
		number?
		
		
		Customer: Hi, I'd like to place an
		order.
		
		
		Operator: I must have your NIDN first,
		sir.
		
		
		Customer: My National ID Number, yeah,
		hold on, eh, it's 6102049998-45-54610.
		
		
		Operator: Thank you Mr. Smith. I see you
		live at 1742 Meadowland Drive, and the
		phone number is 494-2366. Your office
		number over at Lincoln Insurance is 745-
		2302 and your cell number is 266-2566.
		Email address is smith@home.net Which
		number are you calling from?
		
		
		Customer: Huh? I'm at home. Where'd you
		get all this information?
		
		
		Operator: We're wired into the HSS, sir.
		
		
		Customer: The HSS, what is that?
		
		
		Operator: We're wired into the Homeland
		Security System, sir. This will add only
		15 seconds to your ordering time.
		
		
		Customer: (sighs) Oh well, I'd like to
		order a couple of your All Meat
		Special pizzas.
		
		
		Operator: I don't think that's a good
		idea, sir.
		
		
		Customer: Whaddya mean?
		
		
		Operator: Sir, your medical records and
		commode sensors indicate that you've got
		very high blood pressure and extremely
		high cholesterol. Your National Health
		Care provider won't allow such an
		unhealthy choice .
		
		
		Customer: What?!?! What do you
		recommend, then?
		
		
		Operator: You might try our low-fat
		Soybean Pizza.I'm sure you'll like
		it.
		
		
		Customer: What makes you think I'd like
		something like that?
		
		
		Operator: Well, you checked out 'Gourmet
		Soybean Recipes' from your local library
		last week, sir. That's why I made the
		suggestion.
		
		
		Customer: All right, all right. Give me
		two family-sized ones, then
		
		
		Operator: That should be plenty for you,
		your wife and your four kids.
		Your 2 dogs can finish the crusts, sir.
		Your total is $49.99.
		
		
		Customer: Lemme give you my credit card
		number.
		
		
		Operator: I'm sorry sir, but I'm afraid
		you'll have to pay in cash. Your credit
		card balance is over its limit.
		
		
		Customer: I'll run over to the ATM and
		get some cash before your driver gets
		here.
		
		
		Operator: That won't work either, sir.
		Your checking account is overdrawn also.
		
		
		Customer: Never mind! Just send the
		pizzas. I'll have the cash ready. How
		long will it take?
		
		
		Operator: We're running a little behind,
		sir. It'll be about 45 minutes, sir. If
		you're in a hurry you might want to
		pick'em up while you're out getting the
		cash, but then, carrying pizzas on a
		motorcycle can be a little awkward.
		
		
		Customer: Wait! How do you know I ride a
		scooter?
		
		
		Operator: It says here you're in arrears
		on your car payments, so your
		car got repo'ed. But your Harley's paid
		for and you just filled the tank
		yesterday.
		
		
		Customer: Well, I'll be a #%#^^&$%^$@#
		
		
		Operator: I'd advise watching your
		language, sir. You've already got a			
		July 4, 2003, conviction for cussing out
		a cop and another one I see here in
		September for contempt at your hearing
		for cussing at a judge. Oh yes, I see
		here that you just got out from a 90 day
		stay in the State Correctional Facility.
		Is this your first pizza since your
		return to society?
		
		
		Customer: (speechless)
		
		
		Operator: Will there be anything else,
		sir?
		
		
		Customer: Yes, I have a coupon for a
		free 2 liter of Coke.
		
		
		Operator: I'm sorry sir, but our ad's
		exclusionary clause prevents us from
		offering free soda to diabetics. The New
		Constitution our country started using 
		in 2006 prohibits this.
		Thank you for calling Pizza Hut!