Actually, Utah law prohibits not only polygamy, but (and I paraphrase) “living in a polygamous lifestyle”. I don’t think it is enforced, though. Usually they go after child abuse or welfare fraud or something else like that.
I hope Bill gets sodomized by a 9,000 pound gorilla.
none of which they could charge Bill for
Some random notes/thoughts from this week’s episode:
•“The sugar will really hit the fan.” –– This makes me laugh every time. Mormons seem to have invented their own language for cursing. “Sugar” as a substitute for “shit” is just one example. One of my favorites is, “Oh my heck!” (substitution for “Oh my god!”). “Fetch” is used in place of “fuck.” I think the use of distinctly mormon curses adds to the authenticity of the writing for this series. And it makes me chuckle when I hear it.
•More misogyny: JJ inquiring to Alby how he plans to “dispose of the wives,” gave me the creeps. What was even creepier was later, when he told Nikki’s mom, “You are now property of the priesthood.” Obviously, mainstream mormons do not treat the womenfolk like chattel. It’s still an oppressive patriarchal system, but it’s not quite that bad. In fact, women are taught that we are not given the priesthood because we are so much more spiritual than men that we do not need it. (My opinion is that’s just doubletalk and an easy-to-swallow excuse for giving men all the real decision-making power. Or it could be a manifestation of jealousy that women can give birth, but men cannot. Or something. The underlying message is that men are spiritually weak and helpless, especially without the priesthood – and therefore, cannot control their natural urges – so women must set the example of purity and chastity in order to support the men in their attempts to achieve moral cleanliness. Note that my opinion is that morality and sex are mutually exclusive from one another, but to mormons, “morality” means “chastity.”)
•Here’s one that made me go, hruh? When JJ was talking about marrying Alby’s mom, Alby’s first question was “Will this be a marriage for eternity or a marriage for time?” I do not know what that means. If JJ is sealed to her in the FLDS temple (or by the prophet assuming they don’t have a temple at The Compound), then that is an eternal marriage. So I don’t understand what JJ meant by a marriage for time only. In mormon vernacular, that would mean a civil marriage, like getting a JP at the courthouse (and I don’t think most mormons would refer to it that way). I just don’t know what JJ meant in FLDS vernacular.
•Aside from the utter creepiness of Alby’s B&E, part of their conversation did, in fact, bring up an exmormon issue, which is that many mormons have been taught that masturbation causes teh gay. (See “The Miracle of Forgiveness” by former LDS prophet Spencer W. Kimball. Complete text of that book here.) Kind of surprising that Alby would cite that quote because Alby, being FLDS, would not recognize the authority of a mainstream LDS prophet (the lines of succession are the main point of schism between the LDS and FLDS). However, the FBI guy is a mainstream LDS member and may have been taught that way. A General Authority in the mainstream church, Boyd K. Packer, also made similar assertions, citing the GLBT movement, the women’s movement, and “intellectuals” being the biggest threat to the church in modern times. (Google “Boyd K. Packer on homosexuality” for cites.)
My point in bringing that up is that scene – Alby and his Hookup plotting and planning to run a kinder, gentler plyg compound was juxtaposed right next to Bill talking about how when he’s elected, his family can come out and be accepted as polygamists. We’ve said here how deluded Bill is to think that, just because a newly elected Senator comes out as a plyg, that’s going to automatically make polygamy legal in Utah or anywhere in this country. (Dum dum dum dum dum dum dum…) Exmormons talk about “coming out” as an exmo to our families, sometimes with the same result as if we’d come out as GLBT (shunning, disowning, etc.). The issues that GLBTs face in accepting themselves and presenting that to their families are very similar to the issues faced by exmos. One of the biggest issues that the GLBT community has with the LDS church’s support of Prop 8 in California is the church’s main argument against gay marriage, which is that it might undermine the sanctity of one man-one woman marriage. Gay marriage is nothing compared to what polygamy might do to undermine one man-one woman marriage. (Disclaimer: I do not believe that either would undermine traditional straight marriage – just trying to present the different points of view.) Furthermore, one could build a scripturally based case supporting polygamy, as opposed to the same old Leviticus scripture that gets trotted out whenever Bible believers want to argue that god said teh gay is bad. I think what I’m trying to say (possibly not very well) is that the plygs and the GLBT communities have the same vested interest, if one gets legalized (gay marriage or polygamy), that could set precedent that could open the doors to legalizing the other. The plygs and the GLBTs are actually on the same team, despite each finding the other community repulsive [/sweeping generalization].
All of this to say… I wonder, because one of the writers on Big Love is a gay exmo, is the entire point of this series to demonstrate the parallels between how the polygamists have to live in this country and how GLBTs have to live in this country? (Hidden marriages, coming out to family, public life vs. private life, explaining who the children “belong” to, etc.) I just thought it was a very interesting idea. And when I thought about Alby and FBI Guy taking control of the UEB to run a kinder, gentler plyg compound, this thought popped into my head, “Oh, it’ll be Big Gay Al’s Big Gay Polygamy Compound! Now allowing Goats to marry Chickens!” 
•And yes, I agree with you all, Bill is despicable. After all that, he wants poor old Don to take the bullet for him and we all know damn full well Bill would never do the same for Don. He is a slick-ass shyster con artist (Bill) and deserves for all his wives to cheat on him. With his kid.
•My last thought: Bill sure sold Ben right out, didn’t he? And the irony of having that done to him for pretty much precisely the same reason… completely lost on him. For shame.
Minnie Luna: Hi. Bill basically kicking Ben out of the house (rather, supporting Ben’s choice to bolt) is the exact opposite of what I would have expected. In my personal experience, it’s generally the women who are held responsible – that’s why the emphasis on modesty. Boys cannot be expected to control themselves, so we were taught in Young Women’s to avoid tempting them with revealing clothing. Bill was not raised in the mainstream church at all, so it stands to reason that he instead reacted in the only way he knows how: eliminate the competition and boot the boy out. Because that’s what was done to him.
Bitch!
Im will destroy you!
DogzillaThanks!!
I thought this was a very good episode mostly because Bill wound up being openly despicable and acting like Roman. He did to Ben what Roman did to him- what could make for better drama than that? I’ve always been a little annoyed by the Margene-Ben storyline but they resolved it or advanced it very well here. Yes, Bill has been despicable before, but before he was usually despicable and inept. Here - with Ben, at least - he was despicable and decisive. When threatened, he was firm in acting like the kind of person he hates.
I guess Alby really is that conflicted about his feelings for the tax auditor, although I have no idea why he felt betrayed he was working with Bill. He knew that! That’s why the guy is involved with Juniper Creek in the first place! Oh well. He’s being surprisingly bold with the gay thing. Here’s my guess for how it plays out: Alby is exposed publicly and loses all credibility as Prophet. He runs away or kills himself. The hopeless conflict for the tax auditor is also exposed, so the state trust loses all credibility. Who is left to run Juniper Creek? Bill, after his campaign collapses. (The Don thing had shades of John Edwards, and we know how well that worked out.) J.J. tries to blackmail Joey into influencing Bill, with some success, but ultimately he has to make his threats directly to Bill: either you do what I want or I tell the police your brother killed Roman. Bill sells out Joey, J.J. goes away or gets murdered, and Bill is alone at the top.
It occurs to me that everything that happens with Frank and Lois would work just as well if it were happening to Harold and Kumar. It’s interesting but it’s about that believable.
I wholeheartedly agree. Bill really came across as the Mormon Tony Soprano in this episode (the series, really, but especially this episode). He’s a total megalomaniac. Things are getting a little rough? Christopuh – er, I mean, Don, I need you to take the fall here. Furio… dangit, I mean Ben is sniffing after his woman? You better get the hell out of the country (or at least the house).
And I think this episode also did a good job of showing that it’s not just Bill who is a total power-tripper; it seems to be a feature of FLDS. It’s why JJ can demand the hand of a very strong and capable woman, and the best Adaleen can summon in response is some sort of warped Gandhiesque “perfect obedience.” It’s why Bill tells Scott to handle his woman (which he then went and handled beautifully his own way! Not too bad for a methhead.) It’s why all Jodene can do is let some birds go free and then grin mischeviously, in an admittedly heavy-handed metaphor. Alby can feel perfectly comfortable wheeling and dealing his father’s women in the confines of the FLDS, but outside of it he’s clueless to the point of being a crazy stalker.
And, of course, Bill turning Benny into a Lost Boy is just the icing on the cake.
I wonder if Adaleen is planning something, because she turned around 180 degrees from her tearful call to Nicki to her “perfect obedience” nonsense. Or maybe she always assumes Nicki is wrong and takes the opposite position.
Bill is really the anti-Tony Soprano. Tony’s plans usually worked.
I’ve had a running theory since the first season that Don is madly in love with Bill. I’ll put five bucks on it.
It’s true. Bill is actually wildly incompetent, if you think about it. On the rare occasion that something goes right for him, it’s usually the work of someone else saving his ass.
Now that you mention it, I wouldn’t exactly be shocked.
She has ears?
What happens if you’re sealed to your husband, he dies, and you remarry? I thought there was some way you could marry for a second time without being sealed, so that it would last only until death, when you’d be reunited with your first husband. If you’re sealed to a second husband, do you end up with two husbands in the afterlife?
Wasn’t there a big deal because Barb’s mother got unsealed to her father? It sounded like it was an option for her, she could still remarry but had to get un-sealed first if she wanted it to be for eternity.
Yeah, that’s what I remembered–that Barb knew her mom was going to get married, but didn’t know she was going to be sealed to Ned until right at the last minute.
As for Bill being the Mormon Tony Soprano, yes and no. He’s very like Tony in that he just flat doesn’t care who has to take it in the ass for him to get what he wants, so long as that person isn’t him, and in that he’s very vocal about how important his family is to him while doing stuff that’s hurtful or otherwise damaging to them. And in his double standards for his own behavior toward women versus other people’s behavior toward his wives and daughter. But Tony is a much smarter, more self-aware person than Bill and tends to work through all the implications and possible outcomes of a situation before taking action, whereas Bill gets to “I want” and jumps right on in. That’s why Tony’s plans tend to work out and Bill’s tend to wind up with his ass in a sling.
It’s an interesting parallel, and one I hadn’t thought of. But it adds a whole new dimension to the way I think about this show, and how the other characters sort of line up with the characters in the Sopranos. Barb is Carmella, with the denial and rationalizations and simultaneous acceptance and chafing at the lifestyle. Nikki is Janice, with the whole-hearted acceptance of the whole thing, warts and all, and constant agitation for her man to move up in the ranks. The parallels with the kids are obvious. It’s basically what the Sopranos would be if Tony were non-violent and believed his every whim was a message from God and married his gumars.
It would explains some things, but two gay polygamist fundamentalist Mormons with horrible haircuts would be a lot for one show.
Well, just for a start, adultery is a criminal offense in Utah.
Oh, yeah - the Mormon cursing. I hate it. (except when my mom does it, then its cute). I had an LDS roommate in college who couldn’t go 2 sentences without saying “fetch” (“flip” is another popular alternative). He was painfully shy, but finally got his nerve up to ask a girl he liked out. For three days, he paced around the apartment saying “Oh, fetch, what am I gonna do?” and “Fetch, I know she won’t like me”. Finally I told him that, during the date, he had to stop saying “fetch” or the girl mike think it is both a command and an insult. After that, I guess he was scared to talk at all during the date.
I have heard many people say variations of “Women don’t have the priesthood because they are better than us men”, but I can not recall being taught that in any official capacity. I have always taken it to be Mormon folklore.
Also, although I have often been taught that morality implies chastity, I have always been taught it includes other things, such as honesty, charity, etc.
I have never been taught that masturbation leads to homosexuality. As a matter of fact, I barely remember masturbation being brought up at all, probably out of embarassment rather than anything else. I think I have only heard it referred to maybe twice or three times in my youth, and less as an adult. One thing about us Mormons, we don’t do a good job talking about sex. But, there is no question that masturbation is considered a sin. I will give President Kimball the benefit of the doubt and interpret his one comment as saying “masturbation with a member of the same sex often leads to homosexuality”. My take is that the desire to masturbate with a member of the same sex might be the result of homosexuality, not the cause.
As to Boyd K. Packer, you are right on the money. For me, the most difficult part of being an active Mormon is the miltant anti-gay stance. It just doesn’t jibe with what I know of the good (and some not-so-good) gay and lesbian people I know, the good (and not-so-good) church members I know, or the values and beliefs I learned from my church . I advocate SSM, and volunteer my law firms time helping gays and lesbians get as many legal benefits as possible, as close to marriage as my state will allow. (Actually I charge the same as a marriage license to do the documents, and then give the fee back as a “first anniversary” present - it’s a symbolic thing).
I haven’t experienced any problems in the Church for my stance, which is very publicly known, locally. I and a few other church members in my area are in the minority in this, but have never seemed to face any problems for our positions. I do get some snide comments in the community at large, but more often for being a local Democrat than for the gay issue - and that comes from people both inside and outside of the LDS Church. I guess it is par for the course when living in a very conservative part of a very conservative state (not Utah, though.)
One other general comment. Bill running for office is particularly strange because there have been some polygamists who have run, and won, local office in the past - most notably a sherrif in southern Utah in the 70’s, who legally couldn’t serve after it became publicly known. (Looked for the case, but my Google-fu is failing today). The character would have known this - even if he wins, he won’t be able to serve.
I was sure we were going to find out that Don was the “mole” feeding the other candidate the scoop on Bill.