Big Love 2.3 (spoilers)

Nobody’s started a thread yet? This episode was pretty good. Now we know where Nikki’s loyalties are. She looked like her entire world collapsed after her conversation with Roman. We also got to see more of Ben :cool: . Did Sarah see that it was Bryn or does she think it’s Margie? :confused: If the state police know about Bill won’t they just come after him at home? Who was that woman with Rhonda, her mother? And Adaleen’s explaination of her family tree was hilarious :smiley: ! Not only is she her own grandmother, but her son is also her great-grandson.

You’re good! I still can’t remember all the names.

I was confused by the Sarah-Bryn-Margene thing too. It was obvious to us that Ben was with Bryn, but I don’t remember if the camera shot was from behind Sarah or in front of her. So maybe Sarah thought it was Margene, since Bryn was supposed to have left.

But if Sarah told Barb that Ben was having sex with Margene, wouldn’t Barb’s reaction have been much worse?

I was also confused about why Ben got beat up. I missed the first few minutes of the episode. Where were Ben and his friend going? I thought it was some kind of religious meeting.

And Barb telling Margene that Ben had to sleep in his own bed – have they been sharing a bed?

This was the first episode where I felt any sympathy for Nickie. Her dad obviously doesn’t give a damn about destroying her family.

So what now? Looks like Rhonda has a crush on Bill. Barb doesn’t see through her, but Nickie will.

I think Sarah knew it was Ben with his girlfriend. I think she would have been much more freaked if she had thought it was Margene.

Ben had been sleeping on Margene’s couch because his sister was noisy during her sleep, he said. Does he share a room with his sister?

Ben’s friends are weird. Am I missing something, or is his friend with the new tatoo trying to recruit Ben into a group that is even more conservative than the LDS? What a surreal conversation for teenage boys.

I think Ben and Sarah’s rooms share a wall. Ben and his friend (Jason?) went to a Straight Edge concert. I’m not sure if Rhonda has a crush on Bill per se. Remember the way she looked at that young guy at the picnic. She’s starting to see through all the “being married to God’s prophet is a great honor” crap and realizing that she’s going to have a man in his 70s fucking her every night.

Who was the older guy who was with Bill’s mother, and bought a laundromat for her? Was that his father?

Edited to add that according to Wikipedia, that was Bill’s mother’s brother. So my other question is whatever happened to Bill’s father?

Yes, that was Bill’s uncle. His dad is played by Bruce Dern.

Great episode. I love the ones where The Compound plays a big role. A also like the way the writers are making Margene less of a complete bufoon, and that she actually some talents that she brings to the table.

I have a feeling Albie is going to find himself dead soon, or kicked out of The Compound with his wives re-assigned to someone else. Maybe he’ll end up in San Francisco and live happily ever after in the Castro!

They kinda seemed like the Mormon version of skin-heads, if you can imagine such a thing. Maybe he got beat up because he had been having sex. That’s gotta be one twisted group…

We haven’t seen him this season. According to Lois he’s in hiding in Mexico.

Umm Straight Edge’s are clean living punks basically. Wow, skinheads? No.

Bill’s dad has been written into Mexico for some reason. They made an offhand remark about it last week I think. Possibly living with the same group that Rhonda’s mom came up from. She talked about coming up from Mexico. Perhaps there’s a second compound of the sect down there.

Ben was complaining about Teenie kicking the wall in her sleep not Sarah.

Alby’s secret is going to cause him problems, if Roman ever discovers it. Perhaps that will be how Roman keeps him in line.

John, they were Straight Edge punks; it’s a subset of the punk scene that’s committed to a drug-free lifestyle. The “sXe” tattoo is a common straight edge motif. Check out the wikipedia link upthread for more details, but in a nutshell, they’re inspired by an old Minor Threat anti-drug song. Over the years, in some areas, it’s evolved into a more strict code of conduct, including no meat or premarital sex. For the most part, straight edge kids are non-violent and don’t mind anyone else doing their own thing, but in some cities (most notably Salt Lake City, where they attract a lot of conservative young LDS), they’re downright militant.

I was wondering about the tattoo that Ben’s friend got. Do Mormons object to tattoos?

That’s what I had in mind. I did check out the wikipedia link, and that’s what made me think of Mormon skin-heads-- sort of a bizzaro skin-head culture within Mormon society. There are all types of Skinheads, btw.

A great episode of a great show. The writing and acting are always extraordinary, and last night’s director put it over the top. The casting is amazing as well. All this attention to detail. Truly excellent production work also. Wow.

Thinking of some of the militant straight edgers as Mormon skin-heads is definitely on the right track, but I do want to point out that straight edge isn’t exclusively or explicitly Mormon; there are violent straight edge crews in a lot of places and from a lot of different backgrounds. Monster Crew in Salt Lake City is one of the more violent–among other things, they’ve bombed a McDonald’s and carved an X in a former member’s back with a broken bottle after he quit the straight edge lifestyle and started drinking. But there are other violent straight edge groups, like Courage Crew in Ohio, 9th Circle in Philly, and FSU (which stands for either Fuck Shit Up or Friends Stand United, depending on who you ask) in Boston, and they aren’t predominantly Mormon.

Anyway, sorry for continuing the hijack. Overall, I really liked this episode–I’d been wondering about the Ben/Margene flirtation for a while, and it was good to have Barb address that right out. I’m also wondering where things will go with Barb’s sister.

And what about Bill trying to get into the video poker business? So far, he’s been portrayed as a good man struggling to hold onto his principles, but this seems like outright hypocrisy on his part. Are we going to see him becoming progressively more manipulative as time goes on?

And what about Bill trying to get into the video poker business? So far, he’s been portrayed as a good man struggling to hold onto his principles, but this seems like outright hypocrisy on his part. Are we going to see him becoming progressively more manipulative as time goes on?

Mormons were employed quite a bit in early Vegas days in the casinos. I don’t know how involved they are now but I’ve had several old-time Las Vegans tell me that the Mormon influence here is still pretty strong (anecdotal, not to be taken as evidence.)

I think what Roman said made sense to Bill (he didn’t get to be the prophet for nothing right?) when he basically said they were draining money from evil-doers and using it for “good”. I’ve read some other random sources that suggest that there is some amount of pride in working against the common system for your own benefit and to the “establishments” detriment.

Season 2 of this show is even better than S1. I like how Barb is having qualms about the whole thing, and Margene is getting a backbone. I loved Margene’s response to Barb’s accusation of an inappropriate relationship with Ben. I really don’t think she saw it that way. She’s just a kid herself.

Why doesn’t Nicki tell Roman that Alby is gay? If she wants to get rid of Alby, or shut him up, that’d be the way to do it.

Rhonda is big trouble. I think she just wants an iPod and a boyfriend like every other kid, but is also very spoiled and manipulative. She could be an asset to Bill or bring the whole world down on his head.

There were two specials on about Big Love-related topics on HBO after the ep. Did anyone see them? Very interesting, with law enforcement, former polygamists, current polygamists, the actors, and the writers/directors all talking about the show.

Apparently a lot of people who practice the FLDS plural marriage have tons of kids, like upwards of 30, and they are deliberately all on welfare. They see it as “bleeding the beast,” taking money from the evil government in an effort to bring it down. They also tend to kick out young boys, just like Bill was, when they get old enough to woo the attractive young women. There are programs that help the boys get back into school, get jobs, etc.

One hilarious part was where they were discussing the sex aspect of plural marriage. An advocate for “the principle,” this older woman, was saying Big Love was inaccurate because sex in plural marriage is ONLY done for procreative purposes, never recreationally. Then they showed a man who used to practice polygamy, now has recanted. He said, “Oh, the sex plays a BIG part of plural marriage. The men talk about it a lot.” Heh.

In theory, I have no problem with people having whatever kind of marriage they want. The Hendricksons seem pretty damn well-adjusted and I say, more power to them if it works for them. None of my business. I guess the problem comes in with people like Roman running the deal. Only the Prophet can seal a marriage. In order to get a wife or wives, you have to be a full tithe-paying member of the organization, basically paying off the Prophet to get permission to marry. It’s quite a racket, according to the shows on HBO, and the women don’t get any of the money, the property, or the rights. They are treated like chattel in these situations, and some of them are underage. I don’t know how accurate this is, but if it’s true, that’s probably why the DA goes after them. The lawyer they had on said he wouldn’t generally go after people like the Hendricksons since they are not flagrantly breaking any laws besides polygamy (though you can get 5 years for it).

He’s no more hypocritical than a Republican who rationalizes Giulianni’s divorces or a Democrat who rationalizes Edwards’ hedge fund. In one of the specials that preceeded the episode, Paxton said that Bill is trying to move his fortune into something that won’t bring his family down the way it would if the store went broke from them being outed. The character reasons that people who deal in gambling won’t give a shit about his polygamy.

The guy is just so dumb and short-sighted, though! He can’t tell that stealing Roman’s business venture is going to really piss the guy off (amid all the other complications in that quarter?) Why make things nastier?

But he’s not afraid of Roman. Why is it dumb to be courageous? He doesn’t shy away from confrontation, and as far as he’s concerned, Roman is a usurper anyway.