Big Love 3/20 (Series Finale - Open Spoilers)

Word.

I have to say, I think that it may seem out of character for Nikki to accept Barb’s authority as priesthood holder, it actually makes sense in the end. I think both Margene and Nikki – through the course of their various meltdowns in the last three episodes – came to realize that Barb is the stabilizing force in the family, not Bill, despite her Controlly McControlster tendencies. I think Nikki especially realized she needed Barb for balance. She also knows she is meaner than a snake and would probably end up like Frank or Lois: lonely, bitter, angry, and not a single family member wanting to have anything to do with her. Barb and Margene had already accepted her; where else would she have to go? Not back to the compound – you can’t put the genie back in the bottle. The three of them banding together as a family to raise the kids (even the invisible ones!) was really the only thing that makes sense. And without a man in the midst, fucking things up, it looked like they pretty much had harmony, flowers, and rainbows after that without him.

I think the moral of Big Love was “See? We didn’t need you stinkin’ patriarchs anyway! So there!” :stuck_out_tongue:

I’ve heard it’s going to come back in a couple of seasons as a new show: Big Lesbo Love. Or as an HBO fake-reality show as the women look for a new husband.

An alternate interpretation of the ending just occured to me. The whole thing is just a dying hallucination of Bills; how he’d want things to end up. In reality Barb went back her church and is raising Teeny as a single Mom, Margene sold her house and (ghost)wrote a book (& probally remarried), Nikki’s on welfare/in prison/or in an institution and her kids are in foster care (or worse with Adaleen), CaraLynn went back to her birth family, Rhonda turned out to be pregnant and Ben, after a DNA test, married her out of guilt (actually this is a very happy ending for Rhonda), Scott & Sarah are happily enjoying the DINK life in Portland, Heather finally comes to terms with lesbianism (possibly joining Scott & Sarah for the occasional threesome), and SafetyNet is forgoten about and some new “Prophet” takes over Juniper Creek.

There was never any actual evidence that Heather was a lesbian. It was just something Rhonda used to say to threaten her; a false allegation.

Or, Margene and Ben run off together. Finding out that Bill cancelled the insurance policies shortly before his death Nikki and Barb are left penniless, but help comes in an unlikely sort when they’re offered a highly paid headlining act based on their sudden notoriety as the Poly-Gams. They open at the Chicago Theatre to rave reviews.

The Bill hate is because doesn’t want what’s best for his family, but rather what is best/most pleasant for Bill and it never enters his pointy fucking head that maybe, just maybe, the things he wants come at a really steep personal price for his wives and kids. And because even after the rest of the family raises eminently reasonable objections to some harebrained plan of his, he’s always shocked and confused when things go predictably badly and the family is unhappy.

Margene would never in a million years want to be with Ben or a guy like him. Ben is a classic “beta” male, or maybe even omega. He is totally passive, whiny, non-assertive, and generally impotent in personality. Everything about him, from his poor posture to the drooping countenance of his face, makes him look like a beaten dog. He has the physical affect of someone who’s perpetually flinching in anticipation of a blow.

No way in hell would Margene elope with this guy. She needs a strong, commanding, do-as-I-say guy to dominate her; this is why she was with Bill.

Someone help me here. Why did Carl off Bill?

I don’t have HBO so I’ve have been following along as fast as Netflix will allow, which puts me a season behind, but from this prospective, a minor and nearly invisible character just offed the shows protagonist. Can someone give me some context?

He blames Bill for the breakup of his marriage. Their marriage had been having problems for years due to her inability to have kids, and Margene became his wife’s shoulder-to-cry on. It got worse when Carl lost his job. Margene also convinced her to get into the Goji Juice (a pyramid sales product) which hurt them financially when they were already having major problems due to Carl’s layoff. Margene gave his wife the strength to leave her husband.

So really I guess the question is why if he just had to shoot someone why he didn’t shoot Margene. Chivalry?

He pretty much blamed Bill for a lot of his problems, and the resodding of the lawn added insult to injury and he just snapped.

Carl lost his job back around Christmas, so Pam got deeply involved in Margie’s MLM scheme which of course only compounded their financial problems. Things got so bad they couldn’t pay tithing to the church and thus were about to lose their temple recommend, and they were separating. He was becoming unstable under the strain, and then when he came home and Bill had resodded his lawn he took it as further indication that he couldn’t take care of his wife and home on his own.

Dang. That’s some level crazy.

About the tithing: if a Mormon or his family is unable to pay the tithe, will another Mormon help them out and pay it for them?

And so farewell to an often entertaining but flawed and very erratic show. I guess people feel the cracks didn’t start showing until later, but I thought Big Love veered off course early. It got worse later and culminated in parrot smuggling. Remember how Nicki’s shopping addiction was a big deal for a few episodes in season one? Nicki thought her dishonesty threatened her marriage. And they were afraid of being outed as polygamists. Compare that to how zany things got the last two seasons.

As far as Bill’s shooting… they wrote themselves into a corner. It’s really that simple. I don’t know how else they were supposed to resolve all this stuff. I don’t know if they could have made a better finale considering what’s happened this season and the season before, but the murder came out of nowhere and it wasn’t a satisfying conclusion. Carl went through a lot of crap, but how much did we see him this season?

It wasn’t bad as far as that goes: I thought it was moving that he had Barb gave him a blessing. There were other scenes in the finale that worked, too. You knew Frank was going to do Lois in eventually (and I don’t think for a moment that he ever considered “joining her” - that’s like asking a rat to go down with a sinking ship). Sampiro’s point about Frank’s cruelty being toned down is well taken, but I could at least see this as an outcome for their relationship. So it made sense dramatically, to me.

I think I liked the scene with all three wives in the new car and I also bought Bill’s response to Barb trading in the car without giving it another thought. That was what the show used to be like, I think. Early on Big Love was a domestic drama about a polygamous family, not Bill vs. The World. That was a more believable show. I think some of the complaints about Bill are overblown in that we’re supposed to see him as a guy trying to hold onto the faith of his fathers. He didn’t always know how to do that and until the end he never had the divine guidance he wanted. (Much as I didn’t like Emma Smith showing up out of nowhere again.) It’s definitely true he never thought about how his decisions were going to affect other people.

I didn’t like Bill introducing the polygamy legislation. I don’t know Robert’s Rules of Order, but I had trouble believing he would have ever gotten that far. I felt the characters were speaking on behalf of the show in defense of polygamy and I thought that was didactic, condescending, and unnecessary. I think Big Love was probably successful in making a case that poylgamy is not necessarily anti-woman, for example. They didn’t need this scene demonstrate that, and by the finale, they’ve either made their point or not and they weren’t going to change anyone’s mind with some yelling on the state senate floor. That was a waste. I think there should be a rule against putting your protagonist on trial in the finale of your TV show.

I thought Bill appearing as a ghost was similarly heavy-handed. It’s not enough that killing your protagonist in the last episode makes people think of the Sopranos; you have to have him show up as a ghost a la Six Feet Under? I’ll grant that having him appear in the background for a second was more subtle than some of the directions they could have taken.

HBO ran a special after the finale - we didn’t watch because we were done with this show at some point in season four - and I saw they pitched it by saying the finale answered every single question left in the series. It kinda goes without saying that killing your main character wraps everything up, but as this thread demonstrates, that was not true at all. And of course the whole scene in the state senate was supposed to show, I thought, that they were kicking off a new debate about polygamy, and we never find out what happens to that debate. They couldn’t ask us to believe that polygamy was legalized or that anything really changed, so they punted. We also don’t know about Ben and Heather, Cara Lynn and Nicki or Greg… I know those points were listed already and there are probably others.

You read my mind with most of your post, but the last scene showed that Ben and Heather were married – they both had on wedding rings and they were touching each other fondly.

My most burning question out of all the unresolved ones is – was Nicki lying about Greg being someone who had done this before? Thoughts?

I don’t think he had done that before, or that he really was a predator. Nikki was just being her typical bitchy self. I think that storyline was just added in as a counterpoint to the Bill/Margene drama, i.e. it’s all holy and righteous for *Bill *to fall in love with an underage (and willing) girl, but it’s awful and criminal for anyone else to do the exact same thing.

I think thats the Utah version of jumping the shark.

I’m no fan of Bill, but it isn’t quite the “exact same thing”. Bill did not know Margene was underage. His entire defence was based on that. I genuinely believe Bill would not have pursued a relationship with Margene if he know her real age (or at least he’d wait). Greg knew damn well how old CaraLynn is. He knew she’s underage. He had sex with her anyway.

Another major shark jump to me was when we saw Selma Green on the next to last episode. She has breath in her body and is willing to let bygones be bygones with Bill. The first time they met she tried to brand his ass with a cattle branding iron over a business deal. Lois hacks off her husband’s boneless arm with a solar plasma machete and Hollis dies soon after- it’s not clear if it was a direct result of the disarmament but that certainly didn’t help- but Selma and the rest of the Greens (based on a very psycho very real cult called the LeBaron clan who murdered several other polygamist leaders) just lets bygones be bygones.

If somehow miraculously Bill and Lois and group had made it back to Salt Lake and Juniper Creek, they’d have been barricading their house and filling punch bowls with ammo and homeschooling the kids because they wouldn’t be safe at school. (Selma and Hollis kidnapped Barb’s adopted niece!) There is no way in hell they wouldn’t live in daily terror of the Greens, and they not only didn’t seem to be concerned but even included a member of the Green compound in the polygamy round table (which never would have happened- these people were basically the Mansons with a better stock portfolio).

I’m not sure I agree with you there. I genuinely believe that Bill believes he would have acted differently if he had known the truth, yes. But Bill being the “any little thing I want is automatically God’s will” kind of guy that he is, I have pretty serious doubts that him knowing would have made any actual difference. What seems more likely to me is that he would have had a relationship with her and hidden it from Barb and Nikki, just like he did the pre-marital sex.

I disagree. I believe Bill would’ve overlooked any evidence of Margene’s age…she was hired at Home Plus which is a big employer, certainly she would’ve had to show a valid SS#. Plus, Don’s rememberance was that Bill was so hot for Margene that he would’ve overlooked anything.

It’s very easy for Bill to claim after the fact, after he’s had his fill of sex with her and knocked her up 3 times, that he wouldn’t have looked twice at her had he known her real age. I don’t believe it for one second…at best he would’ve brought her into the cult/family to keep her close without sleeping with her until about 5 seconds after her eighteenth birthday.

Heck, at least Greg Ivey was single and unattached.

And I’m a little confused about the whole Margene timeline…I thought I
remembered her saying she was 17 when she and Bill “married” but if her SECOND child was a product of rape that can’t be true…what is the age spread between her two youngest, are they less than a year apart?