Big Love 3/20 (Series Finale - Open Spoilers)

Teeny is now a 250 pound, Black linebacker playing for the Rams.

Dammit. Too late to the thread, as usual. I wanted to post that!

Interview with the creators that addresses a lot of the questions folks were wondering.

Joey and Wanda:

I haven’t watched the episode yet but I kind of guessed what happened from the “Shocking BIG LOVE finale: Bill gets killed by neighbor!” tag on Facebook so I went ahead and read the synopses and this one. It’ll still be interesting to see it acted out.

So, with the caveat of “haven’t seen it”, I still have to say this is lamer than Governor George Wallace on his bathroom floor in an earthquake. Of all conceivable ways they could have ended it short of Bill coming out and running off with Alby this is one of the stupidest. Have they actually had writers for the last couple of seasons or have they just been making it up as they went along?

Lois and Frank are a prime example: I love complicated long term love-hate relationships on TV- hell, I grew up in one in the real world- but this one is just hollow. You don’t go from Lois living in mortal fear of Frank (remember that?) and even digging his grave in her basement while he looked on bound and gagged and terrified to the On Golden Pond of the last season. Frank would never have looked after Lois- he didn’t look after anybody. He robbed her of the money her brother gave her from some scam or other, then he tried to kill her when she sued him for divorce and spousal support (a plotline that was just dropped) and she tried to kill him and still hated him for the way he treated their children.
Where the hell were his other wives? In reality the most Frank would have done is toss her to them and say “hose her off once in a while”. Okay, they said something about how they all freaked when they learned he had herpes and left him- that doesn’t make any kind of sense. I can see maybe the young one, who’s in her 20s and has no kids and can still have some kind of life, saying “Fuck it” and leaving, but the others ranged from middle aged to old. Frank had abused most of them for decades: he’d expelled their teenaged sons from the compound (at least two- Bill and Frankie), arranged marriages for underaged daughters to middle aged polygamists (at least one- Bill’s full sister who died mysteriously, not that this was ever resolved), he was cheap and mean and greedy and treated them all like shit- but after decades they find out he has herpes (actually it was never even proven he did) and that makes them say “Okay Buster, you’ve crossed a ding-dang line!” and all of them leave— to go where and do what? They don’t have any money, any skills, most were over 50 with no education beyond maybe junior high in a cult run school and have been taught literally since the cradle to be submissive and when they got kicked off the compound in the first (or second) season they had to crash in a cheap motel (i.e. no non compound relations or friends), so it’s not like they could just say “Screw Frank and Juniper Creek, let’s learn to smoke and drink and take a place on the beach!”

Lois repeatedly told Barb and Bill early in the series “You seem to think of Frank as some harmless cranky old man- he’s not, he’s a monster!” pretty much in those words. In the first season he killed her dog (off camera) and sat outside her house with a shotgun for a while. She was terrified of him and for good reason. So now Lois is helpless and has the fear and confusion of those descending into dementia and doesn’t know what she’s doing (she takes the kids through a fast food drive through to see Santa for Heavenly Father’s sake) and requires full term care on a good day and is only going to get worse until she’s incapable of doing anything for herself. So Bill and Barb and crew decide "Let’s give her to Frank! Underneath the murderous, physically-and-sexually-and-mentally abusive, uncaring husband/uncaring father/uncaring grandfather sociopathic exterior that you wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to learn has committed anything from armed robbery to infanticide if it’d get him something he wanted- however minor- he’s an old softy! And just because he’s in his 70s and not in great health himself and has never been a caregiver doesn’t mean he isn’t more than capable of lovingly seeing after the escalating needs of a woman who tried to kill him less than two years ago. Sounds like a plan! (I know, Lois had a fit when they tried to look after her at the Henricksen compound and when they put her in a home- but what independent person in decline wouldn’t?)

Made no frigging sense at all. And that’s just the "Teeny"iest piece of it.


Creators fail.

The fucking gall of them to say something like this. Un-fucking-believable. Joey and Wanda were some of the most compelling characters on the whole show. They didn’t have room for them - they couldn’t even squeeze their storyline into one scene - they couldn’t even have other characters mention them - but they had time for:

The herpes incident - totally pointless
CaraLynn’s saga - a totally non-plausible character
Lois dementia - completely trite, tired plot device
Margene and Goji juice - an utterly stupid and pointless storyline
Barb’s new church - another utterly stupid and pointless storyline

Wow. I hate the fucking writers on this show SO MUCH. So, so, SO much.

The only thing I can figure about the Goji Juice waste of time is that they saw it as symbolism for Margie’s marriage and polygamy etc… If so, total fail: you’ve got 13 hours to tell a story, you don’t have time for symbolism- say it!

Just popping in to thank Dopers who bitched about the fourth season. The first three seasons were so good, I’d been thinking of resubbing to HBO but didn’t. Thought about it again for this final season but again, Dopers were there to warn me off.

Did they have different writers for these past two seasons? You gotta wonder what happened.

It all went to hell when they changed opening sequences. The first one was classic and very rich in symbolism (mimicking the endowments and ending with them ascending and having their own planet).

Much better writing and more realistic:
Big Bad Love 1

Big Bad Love 2

I really need to see this finale at least one more time to be able to commentate and make any sense. Off the top of my head, though, from just one viewing, it was only a partially satisfying ending to the series, at least for me. For me, the show was pretty much all about Barb, who was led into the polygamy as she (actually all of them) thought she was dying from cancer. When she didn’t die, there she was, in a marriage with another wife. She was the character that it was easiest for me to identify with, even though I abhor the LDS tenets. I must admit that I have learned way more about the LDS faith than I ever thought I would (and way more than I ever want to know too!); not that it makes it any easier to understand, mind you, and I still have an intense dislike for much of the tenets. At any rate, I was rooting for her to make the break, so to speak, even though I knew that she probably wouldn’t be able to do it. The most satisfaction of the finale came in Barb’s being the priesthood holder in the polygamist church at the end. Bill did come to that realization or revelation would be more accurate (LOL), at the very end. I was glad to hear him request a blessing from BARB.

Here’s the thing, though - there was just -so much- that was just glossed over! So much that went totally unexplained, like where were Joey and Wanda? How come we didn’t even see Teensy? What happened with Don? Why hadn’t baby Nell aged? (LOL) And what’s even worse is that the creators thought that they did a great job!! I guess they weren’t spending much time reading what was being written about the show on the Internet. They had a great premise and so many different directions the storylines could have gone in, and the first three seasons, as so many others have noted already, were great, but the last two have been crap.

I do need to re-view the finale. And yes, I did shed a tear or two when Carl shot Bill. But there was a smile on my lips at the epilogue, when Barb had named the baby, as the priesthood holder.

More likely 11 months later scenario: Margie gets an invitation to Barb’s wedding to widowed mainstream LDS insurance agent and golfing enthusiast Heber “Bub” Woodruff. The Plus One says “Not Nikki”. Margie is so happy at Barb inviting her after not speaking to her for 10 months and 3 weeks that her giggling and excitement knocks Ben out of bed. Cut to Nikki giving her testimony only to be interrupted by the nurse as it’s medication time.

What a crap ending. This is the best they could come up with?

Well, why the hell is everything crumbling? Because Bill doesn’t give a shit about anything that’s not happening in his pants and doesn’t care whose life is destroyed in the pursuit of his happiness. Perfect time for the the wives to wake the hell up and get away from that selfish bastard.

Good one !!!

Another idea for the finale

At some point when investigating Margene’s rape, the police call Sarah only to find that Sarah hasn’t seen Teeny since she moved from Utah, sending the police and Feds into a tailspin as they investigate Teeny’s unreported disappearance. Barb and Billl finally confess that Teeny was murdered on Christmas Eve in the package wrapping room of one of the houses and that they buried her in the backyard to avoid calling attention to their lifestyle and the skeevy characters that are in and out of the houses. The whole family goes to prison for life.

You may have a point, wasn’t there a big controversy when Chloe Sevigny made negative comments about the writing of season 4 in an interview?

So in season 5, the writers start in on her by making her hit a small child. Then she kidnaps compound women, gets generally vicious and competitive with her daughter and is a general all around bitch the whole season without any real softening.

And I think her stylist was in on it, too. Remember when she used to be pretty on occasion? And her “modern” haircut was really unflattering.

Teeny is off living happily ever after with Chuck Cunningham.

That would’ve been much better. This episode makes last season start looking good. Also I’d ad an actual appearance by Teeny; who’s now either a very butch lesbian or transman. In either even she’d be played by a male actor.

I don’t get all the Bill hate. He always seemed to me to be sincerely motivated by The Principle, and genuinely loved his wives and just wanted what was best for his family. (Yes, The Principle is inherently misogynistic…I get that.)

ETA: and I give the producers a lot of slack about Teeny. Child actors disappear from shows all the time.

Speaking of the Principle being misogynistic, there’s no way in hell a group of polygamists would allow women to hold the priesthood. Even if Bill did the others would shew her out of the church or found their own first.

Which raises the question, did Bill ever get around to formally incorporating “The New Assembly of Mormon Pioneers” and giving it a seperate legal identity from “Bill Henrickson”? :dubious: Because if he didn’t then the church’s assests (like the building it was in) would’ve passed to his wives (or at least Nikki). And it is possible that Barb simply founded her own church. I can just, barely, almost buy Nikki accepting Barb as her priesthood holder for no other reason that her current priestholder bascially told her too on his deathbed, and she has no other alternatives. She has no family she’s willing to turn too, and she’s not going to join the mainstream LDS church.

Maybe Nikki will give permission for Cara Lynn to marry Mr. Ivey if he takes her on too.