Big Love: Valentine's Day Edition (open spoilers)

Cafe Society
1

or, “That’s what I call a hung boyfriend!”

So Ana’s preggers. Do you think she’s trying to pull one on Bill by bringing in lawyers or just being “cut the crap, we’re doing this legal”?

Was that a revelation about Bill and Margene getting it on before they were married or had they mentioned it before? Either way no shocker to “Erection Now=Resurrection Forever” Boy, but it was odd to see a woman get jealous over her husband’s adultery with another woman he was engaged to marry as his fourth wife.

The strip motel mass wedding- which is based on real events (Carolyn Jessup in ESCAPE discusses her honeymoon with her husband in a similar place while his other wives were in other rooms in the motel)- was gruesome. I’m glad they did a cutaway before Adaleen (NOT Adeline) and JJ did whatever they did (which I’m guessing was not particularly pleasant for either) and that Nicky (what up with the whore outfit?) got Cara Lynn out.

Did anybody else catch the incestuous creeps from Wanda’s father greeting her?

Almost as creepy: Frank and Lois playing doting grandparents with Ben. I think I like them better when they’re trying to kill each other.

No idea how they’re going to get out of their sticky predicament in Mexico, but I’m guessing Jodean holds the key. She speaks Spanish fluently, is the only member of the group who is free, she has a special hatred for Hollis Greene for his role in her sister’s death, and doesn’t greatly care if Lois gets her birds or Frank gets killed, so that might be fun.

What is Marilyn’s angle? Why’s this one casino so important to a woman with her wealth and power? Love Barb’s signing the contract in any case.

While I detest Bill, is anybody else thinking “He didn’t exactly throw Ben out?” It’s not like he dropped him off at a rest area with $2 in his pocket- there’s little or no doubt he’s going to provide for him and support him- he just wanted him out of the house, which really considering the (to quote Barb) fudged up household they live in isn’t a bad idea since he wants his stepmom, she wants him, Dad’s a perv, Mom’s three inches from mental, he has a sister in the same city he can stay with, etc… It’s not like he cast him into outer darkness or cursed him or anything like- they had a fight and the kid took off and the dad let him go, happens in far less weird families than that.

Are Sarah and Scott now the only couple you at all root for on the show or is there another one I’m missing?

I do like how this show can drag a great red herring or work a second twist into an obvious plot twist. I saw Alby’s boyfriend’s suicide coming from way back, but the shocker was learning that Alby really did love him. (I know what he said to Nicky, but you can’t to paraphrase some lines from THE LION IN WINTER they’re both too deceitful to ask for water when they’re thirsty/their holy oath’s a blasphemy/their signature is a waste of paper/etc., so it was odd that he apparently really didn’t have an ulterior motive- or, if he did, it was “in addition to” real caring. I’m guessing Lura has some ‘splainin’ to do.

2

I can’t remember the exact details, but it did come out somehow that Margene and Bill had slept together before marriage.

Last night’s episode was an improvement on the disasterous previous one. I always liked Ana, so I will be disappointed if she just trying to hoodwink Bill, but I think her comment that her fiancee loved her in spite of being pregnant with some kooky polygamist’s child shows that it really is Bill’s. Plus, they surpised her at her work, it’s not like she sought Bill out. It was funny to see Bill’s reaction when she mentioned lawyers though LOL.

I think, at the beginning, Marilyn wanted the job with the Indians because that’s what she does and she enjoys doing. Now, it’s to make Bill pay for being so patronizing to her, and only taking her seriously when he thought she could help him in DC. He sealed that deal when he told the Indians that she was a liar and a thief.

I have stayed at a hotel in rural NV that supposedly has sealings performed there, and it looked almost exactly like the one in the series. Nevada has many pockets of polygamists, I once went to a house on a ranch in Northern Nevada that had a split-level floor plan. The current owners were not polygamists, regular LDS I think, but had bought it from a man with two wifes. Each level was exactly the same with its own bedrooms, living room, kitchen, etc.

I loved Nikki for showing up in a whore outfit and getting her daughter out of there. I was confused as to why JJ bothered to deny that Carolynn was brought there to be sealed or at least introduced to a husband-to-be. I know she’s the character everyone loves to hate, but Nikki continues to be my favorite. Every time she’s on the screen, I can be distracted from how much Barb annoys me.

Wanda’s parents were bizarre- very weird that they said the almost exact same creepily affectionate terms to both Wanda & Nikki.

I didn’t see the co-trustee’s suicide coming until he talked to the bishop. That was a heartbreaking scene and well done, IMHO. I also thought “wow, Alby really does have a heart” when he found him.

3

Aw, poor Alby. He bought into the fantasy that he could have a normal life. He was completely unaware of the pressure being put on his Trustee BF by his church leaders. I have story after story after story about situations like that in the postmormon world. Glad BL touched on this and brought the issue out of the closet and screaming into the light of day.

This week, I saw a few more modesty references and a bit more misogyny:
• Adaleen saying that Cara Lynn has taken to “dressing like a whore.”
• Margene’s Toastmasters topic. “Independence and Autonomy: Choices for Women.” I really hate it when women think “feminism” is the other F-word. “I’m not a feminist but…” But I’m about to spout a bunch of feminist rhetoric because I actually am a feminist, I just don’t know what that word means.
• Marilyn to Barb, “This is a Boys’ Club here, too, isn’t it?” Way to go for Barb, realizing that she’s on the BoD and has just as much authority to make a good business decision and execute a contract as Bill does.
• Again, Margene proposes a smart, prudent move, i.e., “Let’s wait a year before coming out as polygamists…” and Bill shoots her down and makes it all about her business. It may very well be all about her business, but she didn’t frame it that way. She’s thinking of all the members in the family and how such an announcement would affect them, not just her business. Bill is, as usual, short-sighted and disrespectful of intelligent ideas when they come from women. (Not that he’s open to thoughtful, intelligent ideas when they come from men either.)

I think it’s pretty clear from Wanda’s parents that sexual abuse runs rampant at these plyg colonies. Even Wanda said, “I think I’m damaged.” (That was Wanda, wasn’t it? Or was it Nikki? Does it matter? They’re all so damaged…" So way to go, Nikki. She went in there dressed as Madonna (that’s who she said she’d wanted to be LOL) to make a big stink and ended up rescuing her daughter and sparing her from everything she went through – and everything that Wanda went through as well. When Nikki went all MamaGrizzly on her plyg family to protect her daughter, that was the most heroic thing I’ve seen her do. From reading Escape (Carolyn Jessop), I would make a bet that nobody has ever, ever, ever done something like that to prevent their daughters from being married to some old fart. Plyg/FLDS women simply do not have the self-empowerment to buck the system like that. That was pure Big Love fantasy, but it was a pleasure to watch. Especially with that goofy-ass pony tail (“It’s on the side of your head!”).

My two favorite lines of the week:

• " We don’t need to scrounge around a restaurant for a baby!"

• “You and your sisters of mercy can be a bit overwhelming.”

4

Five minutes before the Greenes showed up, I was thinking that I missed having them as villains on the show, because they were so evil and creepy. And then they appeared in that market in Mexico. And there was that weird guy who was hitting on Ben, who had no idea how to handle this.

And yes, Dale’s suicide was telegraphed well before we saw it. In his mind, he really had no choice.

5

If you’re setting up a love nest with your tortured closeted married-with-kids Mormon gay lover, don’t go with the exposed rafters.

This episode was a lot better than last week, but this season needed some serious editing. They had already introduced enough plot threads for three seasons, and six episodes in they re-introduce two old characters (Ana and Hollis Greene)? I mean, they’re all great plot threads, and if there were 24 episodes in the season I’d be all for it, but this is HBO.

In fact, I looked to see if there were still only going to be twelve episodes this season like they usually have, and it turns out I’m wrong–there are nine. So they have three episodes to wrap all this up.

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Mormon undies!

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Fundie Undies! :smiley:

Note: Actual mainstream LDS garments look nothing like that. You get a better view of those from watching Angels In America. You can also use your Google Fu, should you feel so inclined to comment on other people’s underwear. :wink:

8

And by other F-word you mean… “Flirt”.

Nikky’s saddest comment was when she told Ray Henry (or Henry Ray, whichever) “For the first time in my life I started to like myself”, and I think she was sincere. I don’t think she’s beyond redemption at all, and I’m not talking spiritual mysticism.

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But those are typical for the fundie element? Seems like by the time you get them off, you’d lose interest in having sex. Or is that the whole idea?

10

I don’t know; I was never a Fundie and I’ve never asked one if I could inspect their underpants. :cool:

As for the mainstream LDS garments… the idea is to remind one of covenants made to god in the temple. They are considered like a sort of protective shroud. Some people are terrified to take them off. Some of exmormons have a lot of trouble with that bit because they are afraid, once they take off the magical panties, that god will strike them dead that instant. Others have no problem chucking ugly restrictive underwear.

While you’ve heard Nikki say that “sex is for procreation not recreation,” I would hazard a guess that 90% of mormons do not think that way. There are a lot of hangups (among exmos – we give each other guidance and tips for overcoming) and certain acts that are considered, erm, frowned upon, but it’s up to the individual to decide if confession to the bishop is warranted there or if a person’s sex life is their own business. Mormons, in general, are all over the map on this one. There’s no saying “all mormons think this or do that” when it comes to sex.

All that said… I would think the garments would be a huge turn off. Most of the exmormon men pretty much say they are delighted when their wives finally chuck 'em and start shopping at Victoria’s Secret.

We think that the FLDS garments are more like long johns and do go all the way to the wrists and ankles. Carolyn Jessop in Escape would probably be a better source on this than I am; I think she talks about the fundie undies in her book. Either way, Adaleen was correct in wearing her bloomers (those were hardly panties) and bra over the garments.

ETA: Only mormons who have been through the temple and have gone through certain ordinances there (endowments) wear the garments. Generally, people take out their endowments prior to going on a mission or prior to getting married. They’ve only recently begun allowing single people over 30 to get their endowment ordinances done. I left the church by age 18, so I haven’t been to the temple for that purpose, never wore the garments, and was never married (nevermind sealed in the temple to some mormon guy).

11

It looked to me like Adaleen was wearing a bra and panties OVER her Mormon undies…Is this typical? Why, to give hubby something to take off?

Did anyone else notice this?

12

I read a book a few years ago written by an ex-Mormon woman, a straight up LDS type that went to BYU and she talked about her engagement and marriage.

She seemed clear that non-procreational sex inside of marriage was fine and dandy and her and her husband were using birth control, apparently with the knowledge of the church ( which she found creepy)…she also told a story about how when she was engaged she had an orgasm during a heavy make-out session and her and her fiance were so freaked out that they confessed to their bishop…who minimized the incident and told her fiance that he was lucky to be getting a wife that aroused easily.

13

The main mention I remember is from the chapter in which her husband Merrill took her and several of his other wives to Hawaii on vacation. (For those who haven’t read the book, Jessop’s husband was much richer than most Fundies and is currently believed to be the acting head of the cult.) She mentions that while they were there he removed his Fundie Undies during sex and they had sex naked (in the dark and under covers but naked) for the first and only time during their marriage and how it was the closest she ever came to enjoying sex with him. Usually they both had at least some of their undergarments on.

14

I had thought it was just a full-body shaping undergarment - I have something similar - that looked like it had a built-in bra.

But, for you, I re-watched the creepiness and you are absolutely right. She is wearing a bra and some lacy bloomers/boxers/panties over her single cotton undergarment.

Not sure if this is wedding wear or everyday wear. Here’s a picture of usual undergarments (from a Google Image search, at least).

If nothing else, one would suspect that the knit garment Adaleen was wearing was completely devoid of upper-chest support and she would need a bra to give her a bit of lift for under her wedding dress. Pure speculation, tho.

15

I called the suicide well ahead of time, too. And now we know that Alby’s first wife did not know about his sexuality. I thought Nicki knew, though. And Adaleen does. I don’t know how anyone else feels about it, but I liked Nicki kicking a little ass and dressing like a 15-year-old. It didn’t look good on her but I believed it meant something to her. Other than that, particularly with the Mexico scenes, this one was on the farcical end of the Big Love spectrum.

16

So why do you think JJ wanted Adaleen? Obviously her connection to the Prophet (his 5th but for all practical purposes his senior wife) is a major part of it, but he had many other wives, technically none of whom were any more important than others save for the first one (seen a couple of times, never developed, very old) and since he had young children at least one or two were probably younger and prettier. Do you think he’s trying to court an alliance with Alby, or just get under his skin, or get payback on Nicky?

17

I think one of my classmates wore that exact outfit to our 8th-grade graduation in 1990, which makes a lot of sense, really. My understanding is that Nikki is meant to be about my age (Chloe Sevigny is 14 months older than me), so that would be what was popular with teenage girls right about the time she got married off to JJ, and she seems to have a pretty understandable mental/emotional hangup on that time frame. What was it she said to her mom, that the hotel where the sealings were held was where her soul died? I think her outfit is part of an attempt to revive her soul, trying to pick up where she left off.

Frankly, I thought it was nice to see Lois actually happy for once.

18

Forgot to mention the mansion Bill took the wives to:

Out of curiosity, if you were a woman and just had to live in a polygamous marriage, would you rather live in your own ‘not lavish but very comfortable’ home that’s convenient to the houses of your sister wives, or would you rather live under one huge roof with other wives and their children?
I would guess that most women would rather live in a double wide trailer home that belongs to them and their children alone than in a mansion with several other women sleeping with their husband and so I’m curious what other takes on this are.

19

As a woman, I would hate it- mostly because there are very, very few women in my life that I could be around 24/7. So if I had to be a polygamous, I’m with Ana- my own house, preferably no where near the “sisters of mercy”.

Actually, polygamy wouldn’t work for me at all because one of the major benefits of having a husband- or in my case,as Dr. Laura likes to call it, “a shack-up honey”- is having someone to cuddle with in bed. So to limit that to one or two nights a week would be a deal breaker for me.

20

Much, much better. This is what I watch for.

Good drama, some new revelations, but nothing that is so ridiculous that it’s simply unbelievable.