Big white "L" shape painted on road?

What are these big L shapes painted white on the roads? I see them here and there, and one just turned up nearly in front of my house. It’s about 8’ on a side and has a nail driven into the pavement at the very apex. There’s a number spraypainted on the inside corner, and this number looks about right to be the house number (which isn’t marked to check it).

There’s one a mile down the road that appeared about the same time, which is actually on the grass next to the road, done in some sort of sheet plastic held down with stakes.

This is a rural road with no buried utilities.

Just a WAG, are there any surveyors in the area? That’s the only thing that comes to mind based on your description. :confused:

Mile markers, for police to calculate the speed of a car being followed?

I’m 99% sure she’s talking about a temporary thing, like some workmen with a spray can. Plus the markings in the dude’s yard would probably be a bit of a bummer if it were ever used for this purpose…

These are markers that help locate section corners and quarter corners for aerial photography. The nail at the apex is located by surveying (or crossing strings to get it directly over a buried survey marker). The large paint or plastic stripes can be seen on the photographs that are taken by plane and help to get the photos to an accurate scale and correct for angular distortion. The distances between the points are accurately measured on the ground by conventional surveying methods. Someone locally is getting prepared for a flyover and photography for topographic mapping.

In addition to the plastic sheets (where you really don’t want to paint) I’ve also seen white painted plywood sheets laid down.

I’m not sure if there is any distinction between full cross targets (+) and the half cross ( L ) targets. I’ve seen them both. Perhaps the Ls are just easier and cheaper to paint.

Oh, if you need any clarification about section corners and quarter corners, let me know. For non-us Dopers, a bunch of the USA was split into a 1-mile square grid pattern to aid in land parcel definition. The 1-mile by 1-mile square is called a Section which is generally split into 640 acres, etc. blah, blah.

>Oh, if you need any clarification about section corners and quarter corners, let me know.

Yes! Yes!

I get the drift, here, but I was hoping something like this would turn out - I am interested in mapping and surveying, and have been playing around with GPS for same - I even got one that outputs carrier phase info, and found surrounding reference sites on the web.

So, what I really want to know is, how can I use the location of the nail on this L as a reference location. I’d also like to know its altitude, if they do that.

My house is surrounded by trees and I can’t see any meaningful landmarks from my house or land, not even the nearest intersection. But I can see this L, and it is only maybe 50’ from one of my lot corners. It’s my rosetta stone, sort of.

Can I find the accurate location survey they did on this thing?

Yep, I’d say it was for aerials too.

You may want to check with your County Government. See if they have a GIS (Geographic Information System) dept.

Also, look to their web site, a lot of this stuff is on line now.

Bingo.
I work in an Aerial photo lab, & yes, that is what they are for.

Here in Minneapolis, the city has been working on a major mapping project for some years now. It involves aerial photos that are loaded into the computer GIS system.

To help the computer in properly matching up these photos, they paint marks at various street intersections. They use a white plus sign right at the center, with the legs facing down the streets. Then they paint an additional white stripe on the end of one leg facing directly North.

Because much of Minneapolis is a strictly rectangular street grid, and also aligned directly north-south, the extra stripe is generally at a 90 degree angle from the + sign. So now, some people see this marking as a partially-finished swastika. This has led to rather hysterical rumors about neo-nazi gangs marking territory, impassioned sermons from the pulpit about it, etc.

What the hell are you guys doing playing Bingo? Get back to work!

If you use a painted plywood sheet, what happens if it’s disturbed or moved before the flyover? Or do you attach it to ground stakes?

And a six-by-six square of Sections (36 total) comprises a Township. Generally.

<smacks Patty with wet trout>

You might try calling down to the local gov’t entity (city, town, county, whatever) and talking to the Director of Public Works, or the Director of Planning. If it’s a small town even the Mayor could be helpful. These folks may know who’s doing the photography. That outfit in turn might know the info about the “ground control”. Although I doubt that you will get elevation (altitude).

Another way to get close is to try to figure out if you are close to a corner or quarter corner. Get your property deed out. Look in the description - it should say something like “Section 5 Township 3 North Range 5 East” - it may look like “S 5 T3N R5E”. Then go to www.topozone.com and search on your city. You can navigate around the mapping to see the Section numbers and Township & Range lines. If you can see that a corner or quarter corner should be in the street in front of your house, then you’ve got it.

Uh-oh!

Get off the runway!

If you can get the company that did it, they will have the elevation of the maker.

These are usually contract jobs and so they prolly can’t really give you info someone else has paid them to do.

But if you ask nice, they might tell you that one place.

Get a 7½’ quad map of where you live and you will find benchmark info on it and a lot of the intersections will have elevations on them. It should be fine for most home owner applications.

If one has been moved, they will discover it and throw it out or survey to something else. Messing with a aerial marker is a punk kid trick.

Hi Napier, sorry I got delayed in my response. Damn work interfering and all that…

As you are listed as being from the Mid-Atlantic States area, this actually may not apply to you, but I’ll carry on in hope that some of this is applicable. In 1785 Congress enacted the Land Ordnance Act. This was the start of the Public Land Survey System used to identify and categorize the lands west of Appalachia that were being stripped from the natives and given to European settlers. Some of the links below show maps of where the PLSS applied. It was too late to implement in the eastern seaboard states as those areas had already started describing properties using the meets and bounds methods (“Go this direction so far, that direction this distance, etc. until you get back to the beginning.”) So basically government surveyors went out and set monuments (originally a stone with an X chiseled into it) every mile in a grid pattern.

Given the difficulty of the task and equipment of the time (in Minnesota it was mostly done in the mid to late-1800s) the original monument locations take precedence over where they “should” be. The square grid is not exactly square and 5280.0’ on a side. In fact, in northern Minnesota where the iron ore affected the surveyor’s compasses, the sections are definitely loopy, more like parallelograms (or other 4 sided shapes I can’t remember the names of). I’ve read some diary excerpts of what the government surveyors went through. It was very tough work. Establishing the section lines is line-of-sight work. In wooded areas, which described a lot of America back in those days, this involved a lot of cutting of trees and brush. The description of dealing with mosquitoes and black flies drove me crazy when reading it. ::scratches while thinking of it again::

Anyway, these sections form the basis of property description. One square mile contains 640 acres. 640 is a number that can be fractionalized in a bunch of ways. If you break the section into quarter sections ½ mile on a side, they are 160 acres each. With a further quartering you get a square ¼ mile on a side and 40 acres in size. This handy area (from a farm field division standpoint) is where the “north forty” phrase comes from that was the subject of a recent thread. Granted, the actual dimension based on accurate measurements and calculations of the original monument locations may give you a size of 39.46 acres or 42.15 acres, but it is close enough for a rough description. The whole fractional portion of the section is used in descriptions as well. You may describe a parcel as the NW¼ of the SW¼, or the N½ of the SE¼, or the North 280.0’ of the NE¼. This makes it easy to describe land when transferring it for farming, timber sales or other large transactions. It doesn’t work that well for individual town-sized lots of a few acres or smaller.

If your area is on a section grid, you can check with a local agency as NinetyWt suggested – public works, county surveyor, local planning and see if they have information on you area. Oftentimes there is a “Section breakdown” which gives accurate distances of the ¼ mile± lines within the section and also internal angles.

Shots on the ground are termed elevations rather than altitudes. The surveyors may have taken an elevation at the nail they placed in the road, or there may be an established Bench Mark with a known elevation nearby. Hopefully whomever you talk with can help. Bench Marks may be a brass disk firmly set in the ground for that purpose, or a “temporary bench mark” set on the top nut of a hydrant or a big nail pounded into a power pole. With more and more high-accuracy GPS being used, I’m seeing a lot of Bench Marks not being maintained, although there is discussion on the wisdom of this.

Here are a couple of web sites that give a bit more background on the whole Section business.

Link1
Link 2

A difficulty with using this one point to check any property information is that you usually need a second known point to check into. Then the equipment and knowledge necessary isn’t that accessible to the do-it-yourself gang. However, if the area is well identified by section and hopefully quarter-section markers, it may be cheaper for a hired surveyor to check your property if you want to go that route.

And a few asides to others –

Dewey Finn – I’m really not sure. I think they are held in place by wooden stakes or big nails, but that is more for the wind. It really wouldn’t help against intentional mischief. When had some aerial photography done, it wasn’t that heavily traveled an area and we did it just a day or two before the flight.

Bosda – You work in aerial photography? Maybe I read that before and forgot, but you keep getting cooler IMHO (what with Pewaukee and now this). Oh, and please trout-whack Patty once for me.

And Quadgop - :smiley: !

** Mycroft H.**—I promise, there is nothing cool about hours in the darkroom, every day for years.

Pewaukee was darn cool, in 76.

Green memories…

Wore a lot of hats in the company over the years. Photo-lab, plotting, surveying, but I was mostly the pilot and I am glad we were small nuff that I could do all the other stuff and also keep the pilot spot.

I never did any color work as at the time, we have few customers that would pay the freight on it except for the Gov. and they just wanted the film and processed it themselves.

Remember the quality jump when the moving platens came out?

Did you or do you ever print on a product called Dupont Cronapaque™? Heavy plasticized stuff in big rolls that we used for some real kick ass B/W enlargements.

Does your company have it’s own planes and plotting departments?

Just curious, I have been retired for about 7 years so I’m a little behind the curve now.