Indeed - it seems pretty obvious even from here that no evidence is being presented, and evidence wasn’t even the thing that motivated the allegations. It is more like the way creationism is argued - assert the conclusion, then scrabble around noisily trying to find something that looks like supporting evidence.
He also started out his statement with the weasely “to date”: “to date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election.”
There seem to be two camps of trumpers, regarding Barr now:
- the ones who are turning on Barr, calling him blind, lazy, incompetent, or even suggesting he may be part of the Deep State (amazing how deep it goes)
- the ones who seize on “to date” and say that clearly means the DOJ is still in the process of investigating the massive evidence of fraud and will bust things wide open very soon.
And vice versa.
And how quickly and effectively it can recruit. From the DS’s worst nightmare to their biggest cheerleader in what, 18 months flat? And with all the visible change in the last 20 days!
Whatever the DS is using for influence, I want some of that for my movement!
From what I’ve read online from Trumpists, the idea is that Barr was always a part of the Deep State. He was a Deep State operative who only pretended to be a Trump loyalist. It’s only now, in the moment of crisis, as the election is “stolen”, that he is revealing his true allegiance.
My response to the Trumpists who say this is “Why is Trump so bad at picking his staff that he keeps putting Deep State operatives in charge?”
Because Trump is part of the Deep State. He will reveal his involvement and his true goals once the time is right. It’s a plot within a plot within a plot.
The Deep State won’t “let him” pick people. The “best” people he keeps picking. I guess this means Moscow Mitch is part of the Deep State?
Humanity’s biggest problem might be the size of the heart compared to the size of the brain. A Trump-filled heart overrides the brain.
They’re going to run out of Scotsmen at this rate.
It occurred to me yesterday that what we’re probably seeing is a divide between competence and incompetence rather than a divide between good and bad.
Many people, including myself, have observed how Trump accuses other people of the wrongs he has committed. And right now, he’s accusing the Democrats of massive election fraud.
Trump and other Republicans did much better in the election than polling right up to Election Day said they would. Millions of voters seemingly decided to switch to Republican candidates overnight.
Follow the dots. There was indeed massive election fraud in this election. By the Republicans.
Trump lost despite this. He was so far down in the hole that his usual amount of cheating wasn’t enough to save him. So he’s pissed and he’s throwing around wild accusations. He has nothing to lose.
But other Republicans are smarter than Trump. They understand that Trump lost. And they understand if Trump succeeds in drawing enough attention to election fraud and gets some actual investigations, it will be Republicans who end up in trouble.
So while Trump is running around yelling “Election fraud! Everyone look at the election fraud!” other smarter Republicans are saying “No, no, no… no election fraud around here. Listen, we accept the results of the election. Biden won. So let’s just move on and never talk about this election again.”
There are no dots. There is one dot. The pre-election polling data doesn’t match the outcome of the election. Do you have any other evidence? Because election officials, of both parties, across the country, as well as outside experts, have been saying over and over and over again that there was no significant fraud.
The best available evidence isn’t that “Millions of voters seemingly decided to switch to Republican candidates overnight.” It’s that the polls were wrong.
You’re doing exactly the same thing as the hardcore Trumpists. You’re manufacturing a massive conspiracy based on a “statistical anomaly” that isn’t particularly anomalous and has a vastly more parsimonious explanation.
Well, ok, not exactly the same thing. You’re not misspelling common words and claiming fraud in non-existent counties. But the part where you assume the other side is cheating because you didn’t get the outcome you wanted and expected, that part is the same.
@Little_Nemo: Overall I agree with your post. But ref this snip
We have some evidence to the contrary:
I believe the Republicans attempted fraud by trying to prevent delivery of mail-in ballots, but too many postal workers ignored the PG.
There’s also the question of making it hard for people in cities to vote. Either by fiddling with the voters’ lists or by simply not providing enough polling stations/voter booths. Or by making mail-in/drop-off harder as in Texas.
Thanks gdave, I’m with you 100% and you said it more eloquently than I ever could have.
Trust the scam.
What about the fake ballot collection boxes? Those were real.
Do you mean the ones that showed up in a single county in California? Which were placed by the Republican party outside venues and in locations where they would have been likely to overwhelmingly harvest Republican absentee ballots? And which were then removed? If so, is there any evidence that those collection boxes had any effect on California’s vote totals, for any races, much less the Presidential race, which Biden won overwhelmingly in California?
Those “fake” ballot boxes certainly seemed to me like an attempt at vote harvesting. Vote harvesting is legal in California, but requires a live human being to sign for the absentee ballots they collect, so the boxes were an unlawful method of vote harvesting. If it was an attempt at harvesting legitimate votes and increasing Republican voter turnout, it was to an extent logical, but incompetent. If it was some sort of convoluted voter suppression scheme, it would have been actively counter-productive. And, again, is there any evidence it actually had any impact?
Or are you referring to a different incident? If so, would you please provide a cite for what happened, and how it actually impacted the election?
I may be wrong, of course, but it seems to me like you have two choices. You can accept the near-universal consensus among election officials at the local, county, state, and federal levels, of both parties, in literally every jurisdiction in the entire country that no significant election fraud occurred. Or you can decide that there’s a massive conspiracy of silence to cover up a massive conspiracy to rig the election. But you can’t simultaneously accept the assurances of election officials to rebut claims of Democratic malfeasance while ignoring them to posit a claim of Republican malfeasance. Or am I missing something?
And, BTW, claims of a Republican vote-rigging conspiracy runs into the same logical problems as claims of a Democratic one. It’s a conspiracy so omni-competent that it left no evidence, but simultaneously so incompetent that it failed, even in tight races, to actually, y’know, win the election. The Democratic candidate won the Presidency. Democrats lost seats in the House, but retained a majority. Democrats gained seats in the Senate, but it’s going to come down to two run-offs in Georgia to determine control of the Senate.
Those results are so well-balanced, that it almost seems like there was a conspiracy to deny either party a clear win. Maybe the Libertarian Party, knowing it couldn’t actually win any races, rigged the vote to neuter the Democrats and the Republicans?
That all just sounds to me like cautious lawyer-talk. Believe me, we have it drummed into our heads to be as accurate as possible and not overstate the position, especially in public statements.
Here, in an election in a country with 350 people, it’s highly doubtful that there was never, ever, one case of election fraud. What he is saying is that even taking that into account, nothing was found that warranted overturning the elections.
And, who knows if something will come out in the future? Highly doubtful, but if it does, you don’t want the individuals responsible able to say “Fake News - the AG himself said there was no fraud! Charges should be dismissed!”
Bingo! We have a winner! gdave just made up a new conspiracy theory. I’m going to take this ball and run with it. Might tweak it a bit to make the Deep State the bad guys.
Bill Barr may actually be doing his job (heresy, I know 
):
(paywalled WSJ)
It’s a long-standing principle that criminal investigations shouldn’t become public until quite late in the investigation, and they shouldn’t be used for political ends. From the opening paragraphs of the Wall Street Journal article, it sounds like Barr may be following those principles with respect to Hunter Biden.