I don’t mean to be disrespectful but almost all of these things would sound ludicrously constructed and difficult to say with a straight face, if said with an English accent. See the problem with that?
Why is he an asshole for making this joke? I apologize if you’ve already detailed this but I would like to know what it is specifically that makes Maher worthy of the title of asshole for making this joke? It the totality of the offense just the use of the word nigger, regardless of context? Or does your predetermined opinion of him color your view of his joke?
Did thousands of white people hear “honky” as the last thing anyone said to them before a state-sanctioned mob tortured and hung them in the public square? No? Then maybe the context and impact of the words is teeensy bit different.
What are you referring to here?
Uh, you got any receipts on that? I mean, I stipulate that my Google-fu is weak, but when I do an internet search on “Bill Maher activism”, “Bill Maher advocacy”, “Bill Maher black activism” or “Bill Maher black advocacy”, the closest that I can find to any such thing is:
[ol]
[li]Bill Maher campaigned for (and probably voted for) Barack Obama.[/li][li]Bill Maher does not deny that anti-black racism exists.[/li][li]Bill Maher has sex with black women.[/li][/ol]
YMMV, but I don’t consider any of those things, or even the combination of those things to be examples of advocay for black people. I’m not even sure how low your bar has to be for anyone to consider those to be good examples of advocacy. I did find examples of Maher criticizing black activists for prioritizing black issues over straight-ticket party unity to defeat Trump, but I don’t think that I’d classify that as advocacy.
Could you kindly direct me to something that I may be overlooking?
This pretty much sums up this thread.
I don’t feel visceral outrage at this particular joke. At least in part because I don’t expect much out of him. But I can see how a reasonable person would be offended by this. Being offended by this requires accepting the following premise, which I do:
We live in a country in which systemic discrimination against black people is still a thing. This is a reality which has its roots in systemic oppression stretching back centuries. Many people would like to pretend that slavery is not relevant to present-day problems, but differing feelings about black people and whether their concerns are worth paying any attention to have shaped public policy from then until the present day. I accept this premise as true because I have studied the history of social policy, as it relates to racism, in some detail. In many ways, we are still living the legacy of slavery.
If you accept that premise, it’s a pretty short jump to being offended at a white guy calling himself a ‘‘house nigger.’’ Because he is white, and he doesn’t suffer at all from the reality of slavery, whereas black people still do. He’s mocking a reality that people still have very emotional and practical ties to.
I hope that helps clear up where these people are likely coming from. I don’t actually know because I am not one of them. I mean, I agree with the premise but I’m not the one suffering.
[QUOTE=Ambivalid]
What are you referring to here?
[/QUOTE]
He’s referring to the lynching of black people throughout American history. See, the context of the word ‘‘nigger’’ is nothing at all like the context of the word ‘‘honky.’’ Not even close.
It’s not really that different than why it’s wrong for you or me. Black people have told us it is offensive, and connected to a racist history. The word carries no legitimate meaning. It just means “you black people are inferior.”
However, we can (in some contexts) mention the word, which is different from using it. For a comedian, that may take the form of using it in a joke to condemn those who would think the word is acceptable. Neither Maher nor Richards did this, however.
Sure, we can add that Richards’ use was unplanned, while Maher’s probably was planned. But I’d argue that both can mean bad things–the former because it means it’s a word you use, the latter because you had time to think about it.
Obviously I’m familiar with the grotesque history of the treatment of black people in America. I asked what you were referring to in order to know if you were referring to a specific situation or speaking more in general terms. I see now that it’s the latter.
It’s not obvious at all. A lot of Americans think white terrorism against black people ended in 1863 and the rest was the inconvenience of separate water fountains. Hence the “too soon” jokes about slavery, as obvious a ststement of historical ignorance as you’re likely to find in the wild.
America has never reckoned with this history. There is no remembrance museum. And so many forget.
I would hope my sum total of posts here at the Dope would make it, if not obvious, then at least not surprising.
I didn’t mean you in particular. I took your “obviously” to mean “of course everyone knows this.”
[Bill Maher has apologized:
](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/03/arts/television/bill-maher-n-word.html?_r=0)
Oh I see. Yeah I could have been clearer.
There was nothing innocent about Maher’s joke. He used a word to deliberately cause offense to black people so that he would get in the news, without regard to the people involved. He enjoys offending people, and this time chose to try to offend black people.
And, yes, apologizing and meaning it (as shown by not doing it again) makes things a whole lot better than if you don’t. That was the specific point I made. He could surprise me and apologize (and mean it), and then it wouldn’t be as bad.
People need to get out of this idea that how racist you are has anything to do with whether slurs are offensive. The little kid who says “nigger” still gets told to stop, even if they don’t know what it means.
He wasn’t just making light of slavery. He was making light of the fact that people still the word “nigger” in a non-ironic sense.
I was responding to another poster who took umbrage at what they perceived as Maher making light of slavery. It was within that context that I posed my question.
One thing I can think of offhand is that Maher has been very vocal about all the police shootings of young black men; I’ve seen it on his show often – there’s a brief article here.
Ironically, after his show on Friday, a prominent activist for Black Lives Matter named DeRay Mckesson demanded that HBO fire Maher for the comment we’re discussing! Nice going, Mckesson, forget about the cops shooting all your friends just for being black, and focus your energies on getting one of your strongest supporters fired. :rolleyes:
It’s amazing how you can read his mind and know this. From my perspective, he heard a funny comment (“come work in the fields with us”) and his comedic mind came up with a funny rejoinder. As I said earlier, Malcolm X made the “house Negro / field Negro” association back in the 60s, and others have pointed out that it may go back earlier to Gone With the Wind. If he’s on a mission to offend black people, how come we don’t hear about it more often, like we do about his views on Islamist extremism? Did you read my link about Michael Richards, who you claim is worse? Now there’s a guy who was intent on offending black people! Are you really unable to see the difference?
It seems that, even here, people don’t really understand the distinction between using a word and mentioning it. Bill Maher used the word “nigger”. Nobody in this thread has, though, and if anyone had, I’d be moderating it. A number of people in this thread (including myself in this sentence) have mentioned the word “nigger”, which is acceptable. I think I would have preferred if the OP had left even the mention out of the subject line of the thread, but that’s not something I’m going to moderate over, because it is an accurate description of what Maher actually did.
Now, then, back to the topic. As many have mentioned, Maher, like a number of comedians, has as his schtick that he goes right up to the line of what’s acceptable. It’s inherent in the nature of such comedy that sometimes, in an effort to get as close to that line as possible, you sometimes go over (after all, if you don’t occasionally go over, you’re not going as close as you can). He did so in this instance. Calling himself a “house slave” would have been (barely) acceptable (though certainly still in poor taste). Calling himself a “house nigger” was not.
Does this take away all of Maher’s previous and future humor? No. Will this end his career? Probably not. But it does diminish him, by some nonzero amount.
My reaction, exactly. The show is live, and what he said was almost certainly not premeditated.
Look up 2 posts from yours.