First of all, I am obviously new here and while I read the registration agreement, I am not 100% certain that the title of this thread is permissible. If it isn’t, I’m sorry and I won’t make the mistake again. Also, I imagine this topic has come up before but I couldn’t find it in a search so I hope this thread is not redundant.
In a number of my college classes the word “nigger” came up in discussion, for instance as an example of a racial slur. Invariably the professor and students joining in on the conversation say “the n-word.” In private conversations I observe the same phenomenon. This strikes me as absurdly juvenile and almost superstitious, much like characters in Harry Potter saying “he who must not be named.” In the context of a discussion about the word it should be unmistakably clear that people saying “nigger” are not using the word but rather mentioning it. (An example of use is, “I hate niggers.” An example of mentioning is, “‘Nigger’ has 6 letters.”)
I have two questions. Why do you think that people continue to use “the n-word” to refer to the word “nigger” instead of just mentioning the word “nigger” in the first place? Do you think that in serious discussions of/involving the word we should say “the n-word” or “nigger?”
People don’t want to use nigger because they are afraid of being branded racists. It’s pretty much that simple. If you want me to take you seriously, then yes in serious discussions, you should use nigger and not the n-word.
Surely it’s as much the intent as the word. The way the OP used the word ‘nigger’ is clearly inoffensive. But using euphemisms like n----- or f— is just silly. Either you know what the dashes represent - in which case, why not actually spell out the word, or you don’t - in that case, the whole exercise ends up being meaningless.
It’s interesting - I never say the word, even in a private conversation with my wife, even if I’m just repeating a line she missed on TV. I don’t know why. I suppose it’s one of those words that one shouldn’t use lest it starts to come trippingly on the tongue.
Part of the issue is that I have run into white people who just can’t wait to break it out in a discussion about the word, or about literature that uses the word. I can just tell that they really really want to say it in public. I really wish the word would just go away. There are a bunch of African American kids who shoot hoops in the alley behind my house and they call each other that word constantly. My white neighbor’s kid hears it and doesn’t understand the nuances of its use, it would just be better for everyone if it just stopped.
Personally I find ‘the n word’ more offensive than ‘nigger’ when not used as a racial slur. It’s a sign that I’m talking to someone with a juvenile mind who can’t understand that words are not inherently bad or good, but rather the use of them is what makes it bad or good. Plus it’s not any less offensive really. By saying ‘the n word’ you are causing me to actually think ‘nigger’ in my head. The word is still there and still clearly communicated. If I were going to get offended at it’s use, I’d still be offended. I’d just also think the person was a pussy in addition to being offensive. Kinda like heck/hell and a few other similar word replacements.
Also factoring in this is that, historically, the polite word to describe that subsection of people has constantly changed. At various points, it was approved to say negro, colored, or black (although the last is still widely accepted despite pushing ‘african american’). I can understand avoiding racist and offensive words, but when the ‘proper’ term to use changes so frequently in just a few decades…
Basically, I believe if you’re using nigger to shock or insult, then clearly you’re at least rude if not outright racist. However, if you’re in an intellectual discussion about the word and can’t use it, clearly there’s something wrong with you. Intelligent people can discuss words without getting pissy about it.
Well yeah, and as it should be. What is an insult and what is not depends on the intent of the saying and on the understanding of its intent in the hearer. Obviously two black teens calling each other “Nigga” while playing basketball together, as in madmonk’s example, have neither hateful interpretations on either side of the exchange. My reading “nigger” out loud when reading Huck Finn to one of my kids, has neither either. The professor … well he is just a bit insecure in his knowledge that someone on the receiving side might not hear it with that interpretation so errs on a cautious side. Silly perhaps. But if “Black culture” (in quotes because of course there is no single monolithic thing, better perhaps to say “some perhaps even small but not insignificant fraction of American Blacks”) did hear it as an insulting/hateful word even in that context, then avoiding its use word be proper.
I avoid using the word in any way. I think the words harm cause depend on the mindset of the listener, which is not under control of the speaker, and I don’t mean to cause any harm. Moreover, I can imagine many people might be offended, hurt even, by hearing the word. There are certainly many pretty horrific reasons why they might. Some injustices were - are - so vast that an overabundance of caution and deference seems the wisest course, especially when it is so easy to defer.
Saying the word IS using it. Your eschewing its substitute could reasonably be interpreted to mean that you don’t think your listeners are entitled to take offense. Those of us who avoid using it do not necessarily do so because our minds are juvenile.
I don’t use the word at all. But when people around me do, I know the difference when they are being racist. You don’t have to pick up slight nuances. They are revealing a lot about themselves in a second. If they knew what they sounded like, they would probably quit doing it. Then they could be closet racists, teaching their kids to hate people because of the color of their skin.
Personally, I think saying “n-word” makes the speaker sound like a fourth-grader. On the other hand, I can see why a professor in a classroom setting would want to be super-careful: for one thing, if you make a choice that offends a significant number of students, or even one or two vocal ones, you run the risk of poisoning the classroom atmosphere for the entire semester. And for another, in the age of iPhones and YouTube, profs do have to worry about snippets of their class being recorded out of context and made public.
All in all, I’m just glad that I teach courses where this particular topic is unlikely to come up. (I do have to explain, nearly every semester, that Chaucer and Shakespeare are not using a racial epithet when they call someone a “niggard,” and that’s awkward enough.)
I will grudgingly use “the n-word” rather than “nigger” if I am talking about it in a place where I could easily be overheard. I don’t want to be branded a racist or make an unsuspecting person feel uncomfortable because someone only hears that word without hearing the context.
Fear of being accused of using the dog whistle, as Silvorange is indicating here, I’d imagine, would be a big reason why the term is not used often in a non-pejorative sense.
Imagine someone using the term perfectly innocently fifty (or ten, or five) times within the space of one mid-length speech discussing race relations, and use of racial slurs. When alternatives are available, silly-sounding or not, it’s easy for that person to be accused of sending entirely different signals than they wished to send. Politically, it’s just bad juju, and risks diluting or losing one’s message over a controversy that need not have occurred.
As it is said sometimes when discussing people in economic distress–at the end of the day, you are responsible for the choices that you make, conditions notwithstanding. If that is true for lifestyle choices, how much more so for something as trivial, relatively speaking, as word choice? We’re all socialized with certain taboos which on their face may or may not make sense at all to us. It’s the choice of the speaker as to whether or not it’s worth breaking that taboo for the sake of … not sounding silly, or de-fanging the word, or shock value, or whatever other reason one might have to say nigger, or cunt, or faggot, or paley* … and defending/explaining their choice and dealing with the consequences.
Given the history of race relations in the country, and the current (IMO, flagging) détente though, it’s not surprising that this taboo is still around. The civil rights era is so fresh in our collective memory that being accused of racism is a pretty quick way of becoming despised by a large group of people.
As for me, a black American, I say use whatever word you want, but don’t cry about the consequences if you do. That’s free speech, baby.
I think that people of discri… discernment are savvy enough to parse intent, and people without it are gonna find something to bitch about regardless. Plus, it’s much easier to know who your friends and enemies are if no one feels the need to self-censor.
*I’ve always thought that ‘honkey’ and ‘cracker’ are insufficiently venomous enough for a true five-star racial slur. So I’m ad-libbing here. [Cheney]So?[/Cheney]
By and large, it and the ‘c-word’ are the only possible choices to use, because using the actual word makes the discussion about your use of the word, or about the word itself. It, like other… less offensive words, like ‘nip’ or ‘Paki’, have the ability to become black holes of intent. Best to just entirely avoid it for a generation or four. Really, it’s not like one has the need to say every word you know.
While intellectually I would prefer to just say “nigger” when talking about the word, if I were at all in the public eye, or in a position of potentially impeachable authority, I would never do so.
It’s just too easy for “nigger” to be taken out of a benign context and thus appear malicious. Much more difficult to do if I’m instead saying “the n-word” or similar.
A couple years ago I started a thread asking if people who speak the word “nigger” out loud are automatically racist. The overwhelming consensus was that no, they are not, but they’re still dicks, depending on the context of the conversation where it was used.
While I’m a holder of the Platinum Offenderati Card[sup]TM[/sup] and a [del]N[/del], uhn, New Yorker, I think it’s silly to attempt have a productive discussion or deal with events or text that use word by substituting the “N-word.”
Especially when there is an ongoing discussion about race, cultural practices, etc., it is important to deal frankly; in this case, by dealing directly with the word. Otherwise, what is the point of the discussion and to what extent are the goals of moving beyond such words being served if we shy away from the crux of that discussion. I wouldn’t say those who substitute the hyphenated word are juvenile but they sure seem to be unready and unwilling to wade fully into such an “air-clearing” discussion.
If someone is overhearing this discussion (not being simply an instance of something using it as insult) and reacting by being insulted by it, perhaps they should eavedrop a little bit more carefully or mind their own business.
are savvy enough to parse intent, and people without it are gonna find something to bitch about regardless. Plus, it’s much easier to know who your friends and enemies are if no one feels the need to self-censor.