Billy Graham dies at 99

[somepumpkin]

Let’s remember this thread when (someone such as) Betty White dies, and someone posts to call her a crusty, old bitch. Then some poster whines about it being, “too soon” or some shit.

[Gatopescado]

Hard to take anyone named “Billy” too seriously.

[iiandyiiii]

Graham and Nixon on the Jews:

When Billy Graham Urged Nixon to Kill a Million People

On the account of James Warren in the Chicago Tribune, who has filed excellent stories down the years on Nixon’s tapes, in this 1972 Oval Office session between Nixon, Haldeman and Graham, the President raises a topic about which “we can’t talk about it publicly,” namely Jewish influence in Hollywood and the media.

Nixon cites Paul Keyes, a political conservative who was executive producer of the NBC hit, “Rowan and Martin’s Laugh-In,” as telling him that “11 of the 12 writers are Jewish.”

“That right?” says Graham, prompting Nixon to claim that Life magazine, Newsweek, the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, and others, are “totally dominated by the Jews.”

Nixon says network TV anchors Howard K. Smith, David Brinkley and Walter Cronkite “front men who may not be of that persuasion,” but that their writers are “95 percent Jewish.”

“This stranglehold has got to be broken or the country’s going down the drain,” the nation’s best-known preacher declares.

“You believe that?” Nixon says.

“Yes, sir,” Graham says.

“Oh, boy,” replies Nixon.

“So do I. I can’t ever say that but I believe it.”

“No, but if you get elected a second time, then we might be able to do something,” Graham replies.

Magnanimously Nixon concedes that this does not mean “that all the Jews are bad,” but that most are left-wing radicals who want “peace at any price except where support for Israel is concerned. The best Jews are actually the Israeli Jews.”

“That’s right,” agrees Graham, who later concurs with a Nixon assertion that a “powerful bloc” of Jews confronts Nixon in the media.

“And they’re the ones putting out the pornographic stuff,” Graham adds.

Later Graham says that “a lot of the Jews are great friends of mine. They swarm around me and are friendly to me. Because they know I am friendly to Israel and so forth. They don’t know how I really feel about what they’re doing to this country.”

He also advocated a bombing campaign in Vietnam that, had it been implemented, might have killed a million people.

That he was right and decent on some issues doesn’t excuse that he was utterly monstrous, in a way that can’t be excused as just hailing from another era, on other issues.

[Dinsdale]

Not a fan myself, based on his support for a number of policies/positions I abhor.

His mothership (Wheaton college) just west of me is a waste of otherwise useful (and taxable) real estate, poisoning young minds.

Yeah, I’m sure he loved his family, but he definitely supported a ton of shit I detest.

Q: Why won’t Wheaton students have sex in front of an open window?

A: Someone might see them and think they are dancing!

[madsircool]

@iiandyiiii

Graham and Nixon on the Jews:

When Billy Graham Urged Nixon to Kill a Million People - CounterPunch.org

He also advocated a bombing campaign in Vietnam that, had it been implemented, might have killed a million people.

That he was right and decent on some issues doesn’t excuse that he was utterly monstrous, in a way that can’t be excused as just hailing from another era, on other issues.

Our bombing campaigns in WWII killed more than a million people and they were scientifically planned to maximize destruction and death. Were they monstrous? The bombing campaigns in Vietnam were intended to bring the North Vietnamese to the bargaining table.

Source on WWII bombings The Fire by Jorg Freidrich.

[jayjay]

@madsircool

Our bombing campaigns in WWII killed more than a million people and they were scientifically planned to maximize destruction and death. Were they monstrous? The bombing campaigns in Vietnam were intended to bring the North Vietnamese to the bargaining table.

Source on WWII bombings The Fire by Jorg Freidrich.

Are the Viet Cong and the Nazis morally equivalent?

Was WWII as morally controversial as Vietnam?

[Ukulele_Ike]

Why the fuck is this thread in Cafe Society, by the way? Is Jeeziz Freeking considered an Art Form these days?

[iiandyiiii]

I’ll decline the chance to engage in a hijack. I think Graham was a highly mixed bag – I’ll praise his memory for his support for integration, and I’ll be highly critical of his bigoted assertions about the Jews, and his advocacy for warmongering.

[aceplace57]

The Charlotte Observer has a balanced article on Billy. Discusses his strengths and also short comings. Billy had a long career. It’s not surprising that he sometimes went in the wrong direction. Imho he was a good man that tried hard to make the right choices in a complicated and ever changing world.

His Crusade specials were on tv a lot in the 60’s,70’s, and 80’s. I think even into the 90’s they were still occasionally aired.

‘America’s Pastor’: Evangelist Billy Graham dead at 99

By the late 1950s, Graham had developed a reputation for refusing to preach to racially segregated crowds. It was a decision that brought him death threats.

“Christianity is not a white man’s religion, and don’t let anybody tell you that it’s black and white,” Graham preached. “Christ belongs to all people.”

In 1957, he was among those urging Eisenhower to send federal troops to Little Rock, Ark., to enforce desegregation of Central High School.

The same year, Graham also sent a letter to Dorothy Counts, a 15-year-old black girl in Charlotte who was spit on and heckled by whites as she walked to class at previously all-white Harding High School. “Those cowardly whites against you will never prosper because they are un-American and unfit to lead,” Graham’s letter said.

But Graham’s support for blacks’ quest for equality began to cool in the 1960s as the civil rights movement, grew more confrontational with its marches and nonviolent resistance.

[ISiddiqui]

@Ukulele_Ike

Why the fuck is this thread in Cafe Society, by the way?

Well he does have a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

[aceplace57]

I didn’t know that. Awesome.
Thank you.

He got the Star in 1989. I don’t recall hearing about it.

Billy Graham Honored With A Star On The Hollywood Walk Of Fame Photos and...

[E-DUB]

My earliest memories of him were him bumping my tv shows. “Who’s this old guy? I want to see Batman.”

[Guinastasia]

@iiandyiiii

I’ll decline the chance to engage in a hijack. I think Graham was a highly mixed bag – I’ll praise his memory for his support for integration, and I’ll be highly critical of his bigoted assertions about the Jews, and his advocacy for warmongering.

He later expressed sincere remorse for that and not only advocated support for Israel but condemned efforts to convert Jews to Christianity.

And sadly, he wasn’t the only one encouraging the bombing of Vietnam.

I mean, this was a time when his fellow fundies didn’t consider Catholics Christians, he made common cause with JFK. I like to think that counts for something. He had his faults, but I think his good points out weigh them.
(His son, on the other hand? Total jagoff)

[Chronos]

Quoth Ukulele Ike:

Why the fuck is this thread in Cafe Society, by the way? Is Jeeziz Freeking considered an Art Form these days?

A good point.

I guess the closest fit would be MPSIMS. Moving.

[Darren_Garrison]

@Chronos

A good point.

I guess the closest fit would be MPSIMS. Moving.

You could merge it with the one in IMHO: “Billy Graham; he’s one of the good guys, right? (UPDATED: dead)”

[panache45]

@somepumpkin

Let’s remember this thread when (someone such as) Betty White dies, and someone posts to call her a crusty, old bitch.

She’d be the first to admit it.

[madsircool]

@iiandyiiii

I’ll decline the chance to engage in a hijack. I think Graham was a highly mixed bag – I’ll praise his memory for his support for integration, and I’ll be highly critical of his bigoted assertions about the Jews, and his advocacy for warmongering.

The dubious hijack you brought up.

[jayjay]

You’ll forgive those of us whose general existence has been argued against by Abrahamic religionists for our whole lives if we don’t particularly mourn an unrepentant hater of us, I hope.

[MichaelEmouse]

@Son_of_a_Rich

Christopher Hitchens called him a “religious valet” to the presidents.

How so?

I saw a picture of him with Obama ( Billy Graham - Wikipedia ) where Obama seemed eager to be warm & chummy with him. It doesn’t seem like Obama in 2010 had to go out of his way to get the evangelical vote. I also remember Katie Couric in the late 90s/early 2000s being very warm to him despite his views on women and gays. What’s up with that?

[Baker]

Of all the clergy I saw on TV Billy Graham was the only one I liked or respected. His sermons were pretty much right from the Bible, and his group didn’t pound you for donations. At the end of his televised crusades the announcer would encourage everyone who was watching, or who had felt moved, to be in church on Sunday. Not a particular flavor of church even. I never heard a breath of sexual scandal either, like some of the others. I once read he made it a point never to be alone with any woman but his wife. I’m sorry he’s gone.