I don’t understand what people get out of talking about bin Laden as if he is a moron, or ineffectual or anything like that. I also never understood it when people talked about Hitler and Stalin either. Does it make people more self-assured to believe that people who they perceive as evil are very incapable people? I just don’t get it. It would seem to me to make more sense to follow the Art of War in this one and actually know our enemy instead of trying to marginalize his abilities to make ourselves feel better.
Whatever else you might say about bin Laden, he’s definitely possessed of both patience and cunning. His being an extreme sociopath certainly doesn’t prevent him from causing great damage, and the balancing act he’s got us doing with the rest of the Arab world took quite some thinking to arrange.
I mean, in one meaning… when I say “bin Laden is a moron”, I would be foolish in underestimating his abilities.
I would hope that the majority would be leaning towards the other meaning… ie - Why would anyone in their right mind, think like he does? How did he get from point A to point B in his mindset?
I personally find it very amazing that in today’s world, people are still growing up in ignorance of the rest of the world and their surroundings.
BP
PS - I think I could have made stronger arguments, but I don’t feel like typing right now.
I think this ties in greatly with calling the hijackers ‘cowards.’ Bill Maher got bitched at by everyone when he pointed out that the cowardly thing to do, which the U.S. is doing now, is to lob “cruise missiles from 2000 miles away.” He also pointed out that it probably takes a lot of guts to kamikaze…
But saying things like that shatters the image that the average american has that they’re superior. Before the attack, everyone thought America was on top, and now that Laden(or we think) has showed that America is vulnerable, they want to deperately cling onto security by denoucing their enemies.
Lobbing in cruise missiles ahead of ground troops can be considered prudent as opposed to cowardly. Unless of course your ratings are more important than anything else.
Calling a bunch of guys who think they’re off to the land of milk, honey and 72 virgins if they murder a bunch of unarmed, unsuspecting innocent people cowardly doesn’t ring too false.
Well, please don’t hijack this thread with comments about Bill Maher, that thread was already done. I think the point of the cowardly statement he made does apply to this thread however in that people who call them cowardly are just doing it to make themselves feel warm and fuzzy. I don’t think he thinks the US is cowardly, he was making a comparison about which takes more guts, pressing the fire button on a cruise missile or flying a jet into a building. I don’t care what you believe about the virgins, but I think that it takes guts and calling them cowardly is just underestimating them to give yourself the warm fuzzies.
I goofed. Maher said the comment about lobbing cruise missles AFTER the comment about kamikazying. They tied into each other. Maher wasn’t saying that an air war is a bad idea, he was just pointing out that calling the hijackers cowardly over U.S. fighting tactics was stupid.
See above. Maher wasn’t dissing military tactics(He said this awhile before the airstrikes), merely saying that it’s foolish to accuse these people of being cowardly little children.
It might not seem that way on paper, but I want you to think about it a bit more. First of all, it’s not like these guys had a clear 3-D image of Allah telling them to do this and they’d be rewarded. No, they had to trust Bin Laden’s(we assume) word that when the Koran says you shouldn’t take the life of an innocent, it actually says it’s okay. Also consider- These people were armed with only knives and boxcutters. If they had guns, that would be one thing, but they just had blades. And they were outnumbered what, 12:1?
Bottom line- Whoever they were, they had determination and guts.
I agree that calling Bin Laden a moron is stupid. Call him a monster, an evil bastard, a maniac, but not a moron. I don’t think a moron could have planned the various terrorist attacks he was involved in.
What I want to know is this…How is it more cowardly to do what you think is right in the name of god. Than it is cowardly to go out and say “We are protecting freedom” and then launching cruise missiles?
Again cowardly is one of those warm fuzzies expressions people are lobbing around these days.
It was said elsewhere on these boards, and I fully agree, that the act was that of a man who shoots his wife and then turns the gun on himself.
There was nothing brave or admirable about this. No courage was needed, just the willingness to slaughter thousands of innocent people. Promoting peaceful change and eliminating intolerance in a region of the world that knows neither, now that would be brave. These bastards weren’t worried about changing their homeland, they were focused on committing one of the most heinous atrocities in all history. The Islamic religion will suffer a black eye from this for decades, if not longer. Bravery had nothing to do with it.
I can’t help but feel that Usama bin Laden is somewhat of a genius for managing to successfully co-ordinate such a massive and effective attack, as I think Hitler was probably a genius also, but this doesn’t mean that I’m “impressed” by their actions. I would prefer the word “horrified” - horrified that anyone could pull such a thing off. I am also quite horrified that bin Laden is leading a relatively unhindered life - sending faxes and making public appearances - while still evading capture. But unfortunately intelligence and kindness do not always go hand in hand. I think Lance Turbo made a good distinction between the cowardice/courage involved and I would merely add that those who call bin Laden a “moron” are probably using the word more as a general insult. One could also call him a “bastard” without implying that he was born out of the love of two unmarried people… hehe…
It’s pretty clear that Bin Laden’s followers are a well trained, determined lot, and we underestimate them at our peril. However, the despicable act of purposefully killing thousands of innocent, unsuspecting, unarmed, people is the definition of cowardice. It’s akin to shooting or stabbing someone in the back, and I fail to see how it can be perceived otherwise.
Bin Laden, of course, is not intellectually deprived. It’s my understanding that he has at least some college level education, I think in Business. If what I’ve read is true, his father was/is a Saudi construction magnate, and Osama came by his wealth from his family, who have since sort of disowned him due to his religious fanaticism.
No one can know how much of the actual planning of events he does, but he’s managed to surround himself with knowledgable henchmen, and he’s become the driving force behind much Middle East terrorist activity. Not a moron, but hideously evil, yes.
On the individual level, I’d say that those people actually taking over the planes and dying for their cause was courageous. But that doesn’t make the leadership, or the group as a whole, brace.
And it doesn’t really matter what regular people think of bin Laden, and no matter what the government’s PR people say, the agencies pursuing and gaurding against him know he is a formidable foe and will treat him as such.