Biological Reason for Female Orgasm??

Factual Questions
1

I’m pretty sure this subject has been touched on before, but I can’t find any reference to it on the boards, or in Cecil’s columns.

One of the waitresses at work asked me this one last night. What IS the biological reason for it? Since it’s not necessary for reproduction, according to darwin’s ‘rules’, it has to have served a purpose at one time? (I put the ‘?’ there because I didn’t get that statement, myself. That’s how she phrased it to me.)

For a female, sex still is, er, gratifying, even without orgasm. (Not that it isn’t 10000000 times more gratifying WITH it.)

Without starting a battle about creationism v. evolution, I’m now insatibly [sub](pun not intended)[/sub] curious. Any thoughts, ideas, links?

p.s. Googling “female orgasm” doesn’t really achieve the right results…

Thanks!!

Smashed Ice Cream.

2

What I’ve heard (and I don’t have a cite for this, sorry) is that the contractions due to orgasm move the sperm closer to the cervix, and they therefore have less distance to travel. Someone will be along to verify or correct this, but to the best of my knowledge, it’s true.

3

Assumably, the most, er, capable man, can give her an orgasm, thereby increasing chances of pregnancy. This would suggest being good in the sack is selected for.

I’ve also heard that it might be a ‘if sex has lasted that long, the guy needs some help’ thing. Although I doubt that, with the cervical “dip” associated with orgasm.

4

This is true, I saw some footage once (on a BBC documentary, sice you ask) showing that the cervix actually rythmically dips into the pool of semen that collects and muscular contractions cause a sort of ‘sucking’ action (IIRC) ahem.

5

I saw the same footage and was going to answer by referring to it, but you beat me to it! FWIW, I saw the footage about two or three years ago on The Learning Channel. The series (I think it was weekly) looked very interesting, but there was something else I was watching at the time so I missed it. I wish they’d show it again.

If you can think of the name of this documentary series, please post it.

6

IIRC, “The History of Sex”? GREAT series. You missed a good one.

7

Oh, dyar God, we white peoples are Doomed…

8

The latest column by Cecil is not on the web yet; however, he discusses female orgasms and the “G-spot.” The orgasm is produced, according to this column, by a female prostate. I was going to post in the appropriate post concerning his column in this respect, but since it was brought up here, I will ask here: “What is the female prostate?” Can she get BPH? :slight_smile:

9

Is it? I thought it was something else.

10

This is just as good as a WAG, since I have no cite, but I did see this in a few places.

This question, when looked at a certain way, could resemble the question “Why do men have nipples?” They are both biological phenomena that are not generally regarded as important to species survival.

But I think that if you go looking for a natural selection-related explanation for everything (i.e., asking what conditions would favor certain features), you have to be open-minded as to what feature you’re talking about. At least in this case.

So first ask why orgasm in general is favorable? Obviously the integral process to animal reproduction would be important. We don’t even have to look at it from a Darwinian standpoint: there must EXIST some process that is sexual reproduction. Orgasm (at least in males) is that process. So that’s why it is there. (Why it’s pleasurable is another question.)

So there must be some blueprint for orgasm in the human genome. We know that men have nipples because there is a blueprint for nipples in there as well, and the development of a male fetus is not a process wholly different from the development of a female one. It’s not important, would be wasteful, and not really belonging to cellular development, to say (and personifying fetus development is obviously not very scientfic) “Okay, this fetus is male, so I will now omit the nipple blueprint.”

It’s the same for orgasm. The male and female sexual systems have a significant amount of overlap. The process of ejaculation and orgasm is so central to the male sexual system, that to omit it entirely from the female would be unnecessarily wasteful. The less decisions that have to be made, the better.

So females get a lot of the same sexual wiring as males, including orgasm. It’s not there specifically because it was favored, but just because it was there to begin with, and there was no need to eliminate it.

Now this part truly is my WAG, but do animals routinely achieve the female orgasm? I suspect not, and it is more humans that can reflect on their sexual behavior, and unlock the secret female sexual reward. It’s kind of like a software easter egg. The program works fine without it, but it’s just nice to find one!

11

JRootabega has got it, I think. Stephan J. Gould covered this in a Natural History essay called “Male Nipples and Clitoral Ripples” (a kick-ass title, IMHO). Both male nipples and the female orgasm are examples of non-adaptive evolution. They don’t exist because they confer reproducive benefit, although, in the case of the female orgasm, it might confer some benefit, but not enough to fully explain its existence. They are sort of along for the ride. This is sort of a crusade of Gould’s, he thinks evolutionary biologists are far too quick to assign an adaptive reason for a trait, even when one is not truely supported by the evidence.

12

I missed this bit. You are pretty quick, JRootabege. :slight_smile: This is one of the points that Gould made. It appears that most mammalian females are capable of achieving orgasm, through manual stimulation (what a fun job that must be for a young research assistant), but it is extremely rare that they will orgasm through copulation. It appears that the female orgasm plays no roll in mammalian reprodutive behavior.

13

Ahh TV saves me again. I recall something from a TLC special on sex. The same nerve groupings involved in female orgasm also (originally?) act as a kind of painkiller during birth. The kids head rubs up against the ever elusive G-spot and that relaxes/numbs/pleasures the mother to make things come along that much smoother.

Think about that sometime, you may have given your mother an orgasm.

14

This TV series must have been scripted by wishful-thinking males, doctors or not. I have yet to ever hear of such a “romantic” description of childbirth! Besides, by that time, the relief could well come from the fact that the end has come! Just WAGing…

  • Jinx
15

Desmond Morris claims that the purpose is to help preserve a monogamous (or quasi-monogamous) union, to provide a supprt net for developing young. Orgasm helps pair-bonding, which is a GOOD THING. I’ll agree with him on this. It makes sense. Morris, IIRC, goes on to say that fewmale orgasm is a pseudo-male response that is unique to the human female. As usual, the maddening Mr. Morris gives no cites.

Stephen Jay Gould writes, on the other hand, that the human female response is not unique, and that other animals feel it too. This seems more believable – it’s hard to believe that we’re the only ones to feel this, and if it’s advantageous for us in pair-bonding, it ought to be for other primates (and non-primates), too. Besides, the necessary internal wiring and chemistry for orgasm doesn’t just suddenly crystallize out of thin air. Like the Wing, it’s gotta develop over time.

Finally, it makes sense in terms of sexual selection, the oft-forgotten companion to natural selection. It’s not just Survival of the Fittest – it’s Survival of the Fittest and More Likely to Reproduce. A female that orgasms is more likely to indulge in sex, and thus more likely to produce offspring that will feel the same way.

16

I guess what JRootabega is saying is the same as to why I bought a printer and it has both parallel and USB ports even though I only need one type. The other one is really not in my way.

17

I know Cecil handled this one, but I cannot seem to find it in the archives.

Can anyone else find it? :mad:

18

The BBC TV series was called ‘The Human Body’. And it followed the process from conception to death.

It was presented by Lord some-one or other, I can’t remember his name but he was very good.

The final program was quite controversial as it followed a man who had a tumour in his stomach and was about to die. It showed him taking his last breath and eventually dieing.

19

Lord Robert Winston, and very good he is too.

20

It would seem logical to me that if sex were pleasureable to a woman that she would want to have sex more & thus have more babies & thus there would be more people. easy.

BTW, do some women have orgasms when they give birth?