You monosexuals are fuckin’ weird.
Kimmy, you’ve made excellent points on how sexuality might be played out in destructive ways in couples where one or both members have low self-esteem. I totally agree.
But you did not address why the topic at hand demonstrates a double standard. That’s a very different thing.
So let’s assume both members have very healthy self-esteem, and agree to the arrangement being discussed. How is it a double standard?
Hmm… Hot monkey sex with two attractive women.
Nope, can’t think of a reason for it.
Well, if your girlfriend has sex with another girl, you apparently consider the partner so insignificant that your girlfriend might as well be engaging in masturbation (referring to an open relationship as “monogamy”) but if your girlfriend has sex with a man, then she’s actually having sex with a proper human beings, and that disturbs you. This is fairly obviously a double standard. Of course, relationships are tricky things, and no reason you can’t have a double standard. Why not?
As for me, I pretty firmly believe that bisexual women are human beings too. If any man (or woman) told me that I was welcome to have sex with all people-of-the-opposite-gender that I wanted since they obviously didn’t count, but people of my partner’s gender did, then I would dump them. See, no matter what sexuality I am, I see people as basically equal human beings. Of course, if the girlfriend in question has no problem with it, then good for her, I guess. Just make sure she tells the poor lesbians or bisexuals she has sex with that they are just stand-ins for sex dolls and no one will get hurt!
Right, but you don’t want your woman screwing some other dude. Why would your woman want you screwing some other chick? Monogamy doesn’t cut you off from a significant part of your sexuality.
I agree with this 100%, but it’s the only part of your post that makes any sense to me. The rest of your post begins with the assumption that in such an arrangement, at least one party must be deceived, abused, disrespected, or treated like a sex object. Where does that come from? Can you really not wrap your head around the concept of three consenting adults… you know… Consenting?
Correct.
Because she wants to and I’m OK with it?
Really, it’s not that difficult a concept.
No, it’s not about consent - you asked where the double standard was. And Tanaqui explained better than I could what I was thinking - the double standard is that sex with men counts as real sex (and a relationship with a man is a real relationship), whereas sex with women doesn’t (and couldn’t threaten a real relationship).
And there is a certain amount of treating someone like a sex object, if you are assuming - as at least some have - that other women wouldn’t pose a threat to your relationship because the other woman would just be there for sex. That’s kind of the definition of sex object, isn’t it? She might not mind that, of course, but that doesn’t change the sex object bit.
In which post did I say that only sex with men counts as real sex? Hint: I didn’t. Perhaps you’re confusing me with Chessic Sense. Please don’t do that again.
The statement about double standards was made about the thread in general. Your question about double standards was, I thought, also made about the thread in general. My response about double standards was made about the thread in general - including Chessic Sense’s posts - not your posts alone.
My apologies for any confusion.
So here I was happily reading this thread until I encountered this post, and I experienced a sensation not unlike being rammed face first into a brick wall for all of it’s utter stupidity and gross solipsism.
Basically, Non Sense, if you follow your argument through then lesbianism wouldn’t exist, because no woman could ever subsist purely on vagina alone. This is patently false, and your refusal to accept that your clearly very narrow experience of the world might not be the only one demonstrates just how ignorant you really are on this topic. Bisexuality is not, repeat NOT, defined as someone who has relationships with the opposite gender but wants to get their jollies with the same gender. Bisexuals can and indeed do have relationships with both genders, it’s not a closeted gay cop out for men or some kind of fetish for women. I am in fact completely unaware of this type of bisexuality that you seem to be talking about, just as you seem to be totally unaware of actual bisexuality and would rather just reiterate your own prejudices on the subject.
All you’ve said in this thread is “in my experience” whilst discounting the experiences of other people here who are telling you the opposite - you know, people who actually are bisexual. Way to cling tightly to your own ignorance. You can carry on bleating “all the bisexual girls I’ve met” as much as you want but it’s just compounding the obvious fact you don’t know what you’re talking about as long as you’re also arguing with real bisexual women.
As for the (absolutely crass) bit at the start of your quote I’ve met plenty of lesbians who can do all of those things, as long as you’re happy for the penis to be an artificial one.
ETA: This is in respone to nicole1912.
No problem.
But while I don’t agree with the way Chessic Sense explained things, I agree with him on the general spirit of what he said. He made no general assumptions about what sex is valid and what is not, he merely explained his own particular situation. He explained what works for him and his girlfriend.
My own situation is that I like having sex with women, but I will never have sex with a man. Does this mean that I’m imposing a double standard on the world? Does that mean that I consider sex with men to not be “real” sex? No. Don’t be silly.
I never said that either. I don’t think we’ve disagreed this entire thread.
OK, fine. By that definition (“just be there for sex”) for sex object, they are sex objects. But so what? By your reasoning, every one night stand that ever happened was a stand-in for a sex doll. That doesn’t mean they’re thought of as less than human or that they “don’t count”. Most of the women we’ve had in our bed have been our friends, or even best friends.
I’m not even making a fucking argument! There’s no argument to be made here. The OP asked me what my sexual relationship is like. I told them. Then other people asked questions about it (in general) and I responsed to that. No argument anywhere.
So you wanna explain how you arrive at the conclusion that I think “lesbianism wouldn’t exist”?
Oh, well excuuuuuuuuuuuse me! I thought that I could use a definition of “bisexual” that, you know, was common enough, and seemed to be in line with the OP. But apparently you’re reading the thread now, so we have to humor you by switching to a “it doesn’t count unless you want a relationship too” definition.
:rolleyes:
Where, in any of my posts, did I say that bisexuals can’t have relationships with both genders? Where? Oh, that’s right. Nowhere. Because I’ve been talking about my soon-to-be-fiancee (shh, don’t tell) the entire time.
It’s fucking IMHO, jackass. Of course I’m relating my own experience. That’s what this thread is about!
So? What’s that got to do with my girlfriend, the bi-for-sex-only woman that I live with? Are you trying to argue that she’s actually a real bisexual? Are you honestly trying to tell me the sexuality of my own girlfriend?
Listen, people, I live with this woman. I talk with her, eat with her, sleep with her. We live our lives together. You know how I know she’d never date a woman? Because she’s fucking said so. You’d think that after all these years of being together, her sexuality would have come up in conversation once or twice. She likes women for sex but could never have a relationship with one. If you’re not going to take her own word for it, then you’re just an idiot and there’s no helping you. Fuck.
No, I was responding to your comment that it’s not a double standard. What does that have to do with consent or abuse or whatever? As I said, if everyone is OK with it, have at it. But it’s still a double standard and one I personally find a little icky. In particular, I find your idea that someone who is in a relationship with a man but “sometimes you just need a woman” is still monogamous to be a little odd.
If I “sometimes just need a red-head” and my boyfriend just happens to be blond, are we still in a monogamous relationship? If I sometimes just need a man who can give me a spanking but my boyfriend is sexually unadventurous, are we still in a monogamous relationship?
Of course, maybe I’m misreading your post and you just see monogamy as a consenting open relationship with limitations (interesting viewpoint). But if not, then you are basically saying that a woman’s body is given about the same importance as a plastic vagina, while a man’s body actually matters. If you are saying that an open relationship with certain limitations is OK, but others aren’t, sure, that’s cool, that’s fine. Still something of a double standard, but again, matters of attraction/sexual desire/etc. are basically without logic and that’s fine.
Also, again, not directed at tdn, but just to clarify anyone confused: I am a bisexual woman and I am here to tell you that, yes, believe it or not, some bisexual women don’t need someone with a penis attached in order to fall in love. Quite a few, actually. Also, women who make out with other women in bars on a bet and all those girls in porn are not actually bisexual (well, of course some may be–but the *action *isn’t the key thing here.)
Also, just to clarify, the second part of my original post was not directed specifically at tdn, but at the thread in general and in particular at the OP (who asked what we thought about this.)
Wait a minute - I thought bisexuality was not mutually exclusive with monogamy, or at least that’s the party line. However, based on my experience, the experiences of my friends, the responses in this thread, and many others on the SDMB, it seems like a much larger percentage of bis want to play around while in a relationship, compared to those that are exclusively heterosexual or homosexual.
I have no idea. You’re the one that brought it up.
Not quite how I’d have worded it, but OK. And let’s not get so hung up on labels like monogamous and open. Or bi. It is what it is, and sometimes things transcend labels.
I have never said nor implied anything of the sort.
Nope, Kyla did actually.
But she’s right. The double standard is that people in this thread are not seeing female bisexuality as a serious orientation. The fact that I am bisexual means that I can have a committed, loving relationship with either a man or a woman. Not that I’m not satisfied unless I can sleep with both men and women whenever I please*. Not that I can only get what I need emotionally from a man, and moreover a man who ‘lets me’ sleep with other women (or likes to watch me make out with other women).
It’s not (just) sexual. You don’t even really have to be bisexual to get sexual pleasure from people of both genders. Sexual pleasure is just about bodies. A sexual orientation - really it should be called something else; the word ‘sexual’ in there is kind of unfortunate - is about who you can love and be committed to.
Which doesn’t mean I’m denying that Stauderhorse or Chessic Sense’s girlfriend are bisexual. What I’m denying is that their bisexuality means that ‘sometimes [they] just need a woman’ (that’s not bisexuality, that’s insatiability. you can be both, but don’t confuse 'em).
I feel like a large percentage of my posts here are about my bisexuality, and I feel like a bit of a one-trick pony, but I think there’s some ignorance being spread about that needs to be fought, and I might as well start with an open-minded community like this one.
*A friend of mine once got asked if she was ‘actively bisexual’, meaning precisely this. Am I actively white? Am I actively short? Am I actively brown-haired? IDK, and IDGI.
I can’t speak for everyone in similar situations, but for my situation in particular the third party is not solely to satisfy my wife’s bisexual nature. It’s for fun for all of us, the third party included.
I’m not sure I would buy the explanation of “satisfying a bisexual nature” for sleeping with other people. My wife could have chosen another man or another woman instead of me. By the time people get married, I would hope that the monogamy subject would be settled. If both people went into the relationship expecting monogamy, then it shouldn’t matter what sexual orientation they are, they only sleep with each other.
I think that I didn’t explain rule 3 as clearly as I could have. If I were to suggest a particular woman, questions instantly pop into my wife’s mind like: “Is she prettier than me?” or “What does she have that I don’t?” I guess it would be more of a apples-to-apples comparison than when she suggests a woman to me.
When my wife suggests a woman, she already feels secure around that woman. I ask myself questions like: “Will that girl try to steal my wife from me?” “Will she have sex with both of us, or just my wife?” and “Do I want to hit that?”
My wife and I have worked this system out and it works for us. We’ve been together for over 15 years and we’ve had our share of problems, but none of them have ever been related to this.
My cousin is a bisexual female and has been in a monogmous same-sex relationship for about 5 or so years. I think they may be common-law spouses now.
No, I’m refering to these comments made by Tanaqui:
“you apparently consider the partner so insignificant that your girlfriend might as well be engaging in masturbation”
“if your girlfriend has sex with a man, then she’s actually having sex with a proper human beings, and that disturbs you.”
“As for me, I pretty firmly believe that bisexual women are human beings too.”
“since they obviously didn’t count”
“Just make sure she tells the poor lesbians or bisexuals she has sex with that they are just stand-ins for sex dolls”
But really, I think that most of us get that bisexuals are people too. I can’t remember anyone saying anything differently. But a few people have brought up that there do seem to be more than one flavor of bi. And there seems to be a fair number of women to whom a committed relationship with one man but occasional play with a woman is their preferred way of life. And most of this thread has been backlash against that idea. It’s almost like people are saying “They’re not bi enough!” and really taking offense.