BitCoin ATM...What the??

I went to the Gas station/mini mart across the street from my apartment today…they had installed what i thought was a new ATM. It was in reality a Bit Coin purchasing type kiosk machine.

As I frequent this particular minimart daily I am on friendly terms with the cashiers and owner. I inquired as to whether they took Bit Coins as tender, they do not. Nor do I know anywhere that does take them in lieu of good old american cash/credit/debit card.

What would be the advantage to this minimart to have this machine? Do any of you know places that take “Bit Coins”? Am I simply old and out of touch?

I understand that ransomeware extortionists commonly demand payment in bitcoins. It wouldn’t be very effective if people didn’t have a way to actually purchase bitcoins. Perhaps the ATM owner pays the shop owners enough to make it worth their while.

But Bitcoins aren’t real, tangible things, are they? Is this ATM just a way to transfer between accounts? Why can’t you just do that online?

They don’t give you physical bitcoins. They connect to some kind of online account and deposit them electronically.

The only other one of these I’ve heard of is in Canada, I think in a bar. The bar takes Bitcoins, although I think it’s mainly just a publicity gimmick.

This machine is in a run of the mill urban Gas Station/Minimart. University City MO…

Well they’ve got to be somewhere. Maybe University City is somewhat centrally located. And maybe more prominent business wouldn’t be so quick to be associated with something that’s best known as a tool for crime.

The idea of an ATM for Bitcoins is to convert between regular currency and Bitcoins. It’s possible to purchase Bitcoins online but you have to use a credit card. An ATM allows you to purchase them using cash. I don’t see anything illegal/immoral with that, but it’s difficult to see what’s in it for the shop owner.

(Yes, I know, it’s usually spelled “bitcoin” with a lowercase b and no s at the end, as if it were uncountable like rice or orange juice. I don’t do that… yet.)

So, you put cash in? What comes out? A receipt that I have bitcoin somewhere? Where?

All your Bitcoin possessions are in one or more electronic wallets.

As I understand it, you present your phone screen to a 2D bar code scanner on the ATM. The bar code identifies your wallet. You deposit the cash in the ATM. After the deposit, your phone shows that your wallet contains the Bitcoins in question.

There’s one here at a gas station I frequent, too (the BP at 47th and Cicero, for locals). No idea why it’s there or who uses it. I’ll be watching this thread with curiosity.

I drive by that same BP every day on the way to work. Now I have reason to stop in…

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47th and Central, I meant, but I think you’re thinking of the same one.

As I understand it, if you have received a payment - perhaps you are an online drug dealer, perhaps you are committing cybercrimes and this is a random payment or payment from your other criminal friends - you could walk up to the bitcoin ATM and withdraw cash without leaving any kind of record.

If you wish to buy illegal drugs online, you could presumably walk up to that ATM and buy bitcoins somehow.

Obviously, the shop owner is getting paid something for the machine being there, probably a fee per transaction, just like ATMs.

Due to this connection with crime, I do not realistically see these machines being around long. That is essentially what they are good for. There are a bunch of online drug dealers. They basically know someone who can source them the goods. They go online and basically maintain their store page, which is very similar to an ebay merchant page. As orders come in, they fill them, put prepaid package stamps, presumably bought online anonymously somehow, and then stick them in random post office drop boxes.

They can then pay their supplier with bitcoins, and their supplier can withdraw them via this method. Their supplier could also mail the ‘re-up’ (restock) so the 2 criminals need not even meet.

It’s obviously significantly lower risk in a couple of key ways. It is far more difficult for the authorities to track them down. Technically it is nearly impossible if the criminals don’t make a mistake. The other, even bigger risk reduction, is that since the drug dealers don’t meet their clients in person, there aren’t going to be armed robberies happening. The drug dealer need not even carry a gun, except when he goes to meet his supplier.

You could argue it both ways, on the one hand, it makes it easier for the criminals to go about their business without being punished. On the other, it reduces the number of people murdered in the drug trade, and it increases quality, and technically it saves the State money because if it can’t catch people, it doesn’t have to spend money incarcerating them.

My BP is for sure on the west side of Cicero at or near 47th…

Now back to the thread.

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Are the dollars in your bank account real tangible things? They are not. Sure, you can get a piece of paper with writing on it that says the piece of paper is worth $X. It’s still just a piece of paper.

But if all you’re asking is if there are bitcoin banknotes or coins, the answer is no. It’s all electronic.

Um, I think the “Bitcoin = crime” equivalence is a bit too strong in this thread.

  • Speculation: Some people buy Bitcoins just to speculate on the future value of the currency, like they would buy euros or pounds (Forex).
  • Money transfer: The Bitcoin system can act as a worldwide, low-cost Western Union / PayPal between individuals. ATMs can be useful for that.
  • Tin foil: Some people don’t trust the ordinary monetary and/or banking system and choose to keep their money in Bitcoins, on the belief that The Man can’t seize or devalue something that’s neither in ordinary currency nor in an ordinary bank or vault. Or they see Bitcoins as a hedge against recessions and depressions. Eventually these people do need to use ordinary cash in everyday life, so they might need ATMs.
  • Tax evasion and other crimes: Yes, some people do want their money to be untraceable for unsavory reasons.

I guess it’s also possible for somebody to be unable to use an ordinary bank account, and storing their money in a Bitcoin wallet beats leaving cash in the sugar bowl. I don’t know if this happens for real.

None of these reasons is likely when you’re talking about a machine placed at some nondescript convenience store in the Midwest. I’d be surprised if it were being used for anything but illegal transactions, ransoms, money laundering, tax evasion, or other crimes.

At the Apple Store in San Francisco? Okay, I can maybe buy IT-libertrandians are involved. Mexican and Philippine immigrants are not sending their remittances by bitcoin.

It’s what bitcoins are for. The reason speculation works is because their value in crime is why bitcoins are worth anything at all. There are a finite number of bitcoins, and most are not circulated, and if 10 million dollars of illegal goods are to be moved every day, then at least 10 million dollars of bitcoins must be available to to the parties in the transactions. So the illegal goods buyers and sellers are the ones bidding up the price.

The bitcoin fees, the high volatility, meaning the value of the money you used could go up or down in just 1 day, and the fact that your money is so easily stolen without recourse make it stupid for transactions.

As for the “tin foil” reason - not enough of those guys have enough money to explain bitcoin’s high price. Anyways, most tin foil nuts are going to be buying gold or silver, since it’s a heck of a lot more tangible and the value is far more stable.

This is an ignorant view of bitcoin. It’s like saying a website that uses Https must be for illegal activity because they are encrypting their pages, or that someone using a VPN to maintain online privacy must have criminal intent.

There are currently over 36,000 bitcoin ATM or cash to bitcoin exchange services in 56 countries.

A very small and incomplete list of legitimate companies who accept bitcoin for payment includes Microsoft, Dell, Overstock.com, Newegg.com, Tiger Direct, CheapAir.com, Theatre Tickets Direct, Honest Brew, Reeds Jewelers, The Sacramento Kings (NBA franchise that accepts bitcoin for tickets, jerseys, hot dogs, beer, etc.)

There are literally thousands of legitimate businesses that accept bitcoin both online and in brick and mortar stores.

You can order pizza, pay doctor’s bills, put a deposit on a vacation condo, and any number of other things including paying your US taxes using bitcoin (via a third party service but nevertheless…) With bitcoin there are no transaction fees, and no minimums. It’s possible to send someone 20 cents. Try doing that with paypal or with a bank wire.

So to get them you either have to go to an online broker and give them your banking info or credit card number, or just pay cash at an exchange service or ATM and get them anonymously. I prefer anything I do to be anonymous when possible and it isn’t because I plan to do anything illegal.