Bite me, Quicken

The BBQ Pit
21

[QUOTE=commasense]
This is why I’m still running Quicken 99 and Quickbooks 99. (Yes, I have to reconcile the accounts manually, not online.) But it all still works fine for me, and I haven’t been paying Intuit lots of money every year.
[/QUOTE]

Agreed, this is the last good version of Quicken. We tried 2000 when it came out, got sick of the interface annoyances and weird behavior after a week, and reverted to 99. Never looked back.

Later, when it came out that Intuit saved program registration info in the Master Boot Record (obstensibly to combat piracy), any possible regrets promptly vanished.

Now I see their TV commercials for FANTASTIC HOME LOANS, and strained my eye socket muscles from all the :rolleyes: It looks like Intuit got into that business at about the same time their evil upgrade policy was finalized.

I’ll never give Intuit another penny as long as I live. What’s the incentive?

22

Why do you all seem to think that your products should be supported for decades, just because you paid for them?

I run a technical support team for Point-of-Sale software and hardware. These systems cost tens- to hundreds of thousands of dollars to install, customize and maintain. Should I continue to support old DOS cash registers and Serial devices, WYSE terminals and the like long after they’ve become obsolete? hell no! It’s not even possible, let alone cost-efficient.

So when someone with a DOS register has a hardware failure, they’re on the hook for a $12,000 IBM register. No exceptions. I won’t replace old hardware with likewise outdated hardware.

The same thing goes for software. Should I continue to waste time trying to repair a 10 year old version of Linux Redhat server? No way! If Linux won’t support it, I can’t either.

Technology changes, processes change, the cost to support old, obsolete formats and versions of software is tremendous. Specific to this topic, there were HUGE changes in the banking industry and support formats of data from financial institutions and whatnot in the last 3 years.

Many banks have had to completely change their data formats, Intuit has had to re-write their software for these new formats, and that is yet another reason why you are forced to upgrade. Supporting 40 different versions of code is impossible, and that is what you are asking Intuit to do.

You may want to buy some ledger paper if being on top of the newest version of software bothers you so much.

Sam

23

I should also add:

Those of us who work in the support and service industry aren’t out to steal money from you and force you to upgrade. We’re just trying to get you a good product that works, and saves you money; while being actually supportable so that the product you purchased serves its purpose(which is generally to make your life easier or save you money in some way).

24

[QUOTE=GaWd]
I should also add:

Those of us who work in the support and service industry aren’t out to steal money from you and force you to upgrade. We’re just trying to get you a good product that works, and saves you money; while being actually supportable so that the product you purchased serves its purpose(which is generally to make your life easier or save you money in some way).
[/QUOTE]

MY problem is that the commercials for these programs make it seem like you will get oodles of $$$ back on your tax returns, while failing to mention it will cost more to upgrade next year then you “saved” this year.

25

[QUOTE=GaWd]
I should also add:

Those of us who work in the support and service industry aren’t out to steal money from you and force you to upgrade. We’re just trying to get you a good product that works, and saves you money; while being actually supportable so that the product you purchased serves its purpose(which is generally to make your life easier or save you money in some way).
[/QUOTE]

Not all companies in the service industry shares your reluctance to engage in highway robbery.

There’s also a strong distinction between a service provider stopping support on a particular product, and a service provider actively extorting their customers to insure a constant revenue stream.

26

[QUOTE=Subway Prophet]
Not all companies in the service industry shares your reluctance to engage in highway robbery.
[/quote]

Ya, actually they do. In the industry groups I belong to, many large corporations like Yahoo, Google and other F500 companies belong. They pretty much share my feelings. I will have to assume that Intuit also shares those feelings, as opposed to rubbing their paws together like greedy fiends.

Not in this case, no.

In this case, Intuit is shutting off downloads of obsolete data formats and consolidating their support base by removing a supported version. I really don’t consider that extortion or highway robbery.

27

[QUOTE=GaWd]

In this case, Intuit is shutting off downloads of obsolete data formats and consolidating their support base by removing a supported version. I really don’t consider that extortion or highway robbery.
[/QUOTE]

Then you’re a dipshit of the highest order. Absolutely nothing insofar as banking is concerned has changed enough to support the idea that those data formats are “obsolete.”

Just because many many of the companies out there are trying to ass-rape their customers with this idea of “you don’t own our software, we’re lettng you use it out of the kindness of our hearts…” doesn’t make it right.

Forcing me to upgrade Intuit, Excel, or anything every three years is absolute bullshit. I understand you don’t want to continue to dedicate tech support people toward fixing it, but setting it up so that it deliberately “breaks” after x years is complete malarkey, especially if youre not going to put a BIG notice on the front of the box.

28

[QUOTE=crazyjoe]
Then you’re a dipshit of the highest order. Absolutely nothing insofar as banking is concerned has changed enough to support the idea that those data formats are “obsolete.”
[/quote]

Oooh. Big words from the meanie! :rolleyes:

I hate to argue this point, but there absolutely WAS a change in standards of banking data formats in the recent past. When and what versions of software were affected I cannot tell you, but I do know that it took place.

Aside from the burden of supporting such an array of products, companies don’t like multiple old versions of their software floating around. Security concerns, operating system compatibility, improvements in technology and increased supportability are high up on the list of reasons why.

Whether it’s right or not, you agreed to the terms and conditions when you installed it. Until customer protection groups stand up and make changes to what is allowed in these agreements, you’ve got no leg to stand on.

Change is good. Embrace change.

29

[QUOTE=GaWd]
Oooh. Big words from the meanie! :rolleyes:

I hate to argue this point, but there absolutely WAS a change in standards of banking data formats in the recent past. When and what versions of software were affected I cannot tell you, but I do know that it took place.

.
[/QUOTE]

And this is 5OOP3R 53KRIT :rolleyes:

Seriously…
Software companies have a “built-in” obsolescense. Those that fail to realize this deserve to be screwed in the ass.

30

[QUOTE=GaWd]

I hate to argue this point, but there absolutely WAS a change in standards of banking data formats in the recent past. When and what versions of software were affected I cannot tell you, but I do know that it took place.

[/QUOTE]

I’m going to need to see a cite for this. I’ve worked for 2 very large financial institutions in the past 7 years, and heard not a peep about the format of banking data changing. And I’m in IT, the people who take care of the data formats and stuff, so I should have heard about it.

The 2 biggest things I can remember that affect the online banking industry in recent times are Sarbanes-Oxley (because it affected everything) and a recent requirement mandating improved security for online banking transactions (a 2 phase login, if I am not mistaken). That’s it.

31

[QUOTE=scottkris]
And this is 5OOP3R 53KRIT :rolleyes:

Seriously…
Software companies have a “built-in” obsolescense. Those that fail to realize this deserve to be screwed in the ass.
[/QUOTE]

This is the most assinine thing I’ve seen yet. I honestly don’t think I should even address it since it’s such a brain-fucking-dead comment. Of all the people I know in the software industry(quite a few), I know of none who do this.
CrazyJoe- Here is what I was referring to: http://pcworld.about.com/news/Feb152005id119672.htm

Standards change. Technology changes. So, too, must your software.

32

[QUOTE=GaWd]
This is the most assinine thing I’ve seen yet. I honestly don’t think I should even address it since it’s such a brain-fucking-dead comment. Of all the people I know in the software industry(quite a few), I know of none who do this.

[/quote]

Glad to piss you off so much. Perhaps if others did as well, the assinine unecessary “upgrades” will stop.

[QUOTE=GaWd]

CrazyJoe- Here is what I was referring to: http://pcworld.about.com/news/Feb152005id119672.htm

Standards change. Technology changes. So, too, must your software.
[/QUOTE]

Yep…pay now and pay later…

33

[QUOTE=GaWd]
This is the most assinine thing I’ve seen yet. I honestly don’t think I should even address it since it’s such a brain-fucking-dead comment. Of all the people I know in the software industry(quite a few), I know of none who do this.
CrazyJoe- Here is what I was referring to: http://pcworld.about.com/news/Feb152005id119672.htm

Standards change. Technology changes. So, too, must your software.
[/QUOTE]

Did you even read your cite?

There was no banking standard that changed, this was an Intuit mandated change. “Change formats so your customers can keep doing what they like to do, or risk losing them. Oh, and it will cost you mucho dinero to get certified on the new format.”

34

And, seriously, this is why Open Source software exists. People get pissed off at the way the larger companies do things, and do it their own self.

35

[QUOTE=E-Sabbath]
And, seriously, this is why Open Source software exists. People get pissed off at the way the larger companies do things, and do it their own self.
[/QUOTE]
Is there an Open Source substitute for Quicken? I’ve been looking for one for a while, and haven’t found an acceptable one.

36

[QUOTE=scottkris]
Glad to piss you off so much. Perhaps if others did as well, the assinine unecessary “upgrades” will stop.

Yep…pay now and pay later…
[/QUOTE]

Pissed? I’m not pissed. Stunned by your ignorance? perhaps.

As for upgrades…well, let’s just say we disagree. ALL of business is based on “upgrades” of one type or another. Maybe business will just stop because some segment of those who use products feel it’s unnecessary.

37

[QUOTE=crazyjoe]
There was no banking standard that changed, this was an Intuit mandated change. “Change formats so your customers can keep doing what they like to do, or risk losing them. Oh, and it will cost you mucho dinero to get certified on the new format.”
[/QUOTE]

I’d certainly say that a banking data standard has changed. One format of data export is no longer supported for the consumer banking software industry and the financial institutions and other consumer banking software vendors had to change as well.

You asked me what I was referring to and I kindly pointed you to a single source on the matter.

The industry I work in has recently been forced into a similar situation. ISBN numbers have changed format as of January of this year. My entire company was forced to abandon all forward code changes to retool our platform to accept 13 digits. This happens on a regular basis with credit card companies, retail industry groups, and bookstore industry groups.

If I was like you guys, I could bitch, whine, kvetch, and bitch some more about the evil powers that be. Or, I can accept that as a level-headed individual as a cost of doing business and change my software so that it functions to new industry standards.

38

[QUOTE=E-Sabbath]
And, seriously, this is why Open Source software exists. People get pissed off at the way the larger companies do things, and do it their own self.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly. With open source, instead of getting pissed off at larger companies, you can get pissed off at the idiot in his basement who doesn’t write, his documentation consists of the words “run it. it works!!!” And whose support consists of the words “well, it works on my machine.”

Still, now that I won’t be buying Quicken - what are some alternatives?

39

[QUOTE=GaWd]
I’d certainly say that a banking data standard has changed. One format of data export is no longer supported for the consumer banking software industry and the financial institutions and other consumer banking software vendors had to change as well.

You asked me what I was referring to and I kindly pointed you to a single source on the matter.

The industry I work in has recently been forced into a similar situation. ISBN numbers have changed format as of January of this year. My entire company was forced to abandon all forward code changes to retool our platform to accept 13 digits. This happens on a regular basis with credit card companies, retail industry groups, and bookstore industry groups.

If I was like you guys, I could bitch, whine, kvetch, and bitch some more about the evil powers that be. Or, I can accept that as a level-headed individual as a cost of doing business and change my software so that it functions to new industry standards.
[/QUOTE]

You’re messed up and then some, chief. The banks didn’t decide to change standards, Intuit decided that they needed more money, so they altered their file format and then told everyone who uses it that they could go suck rocks if they didn’t change as well.

I don’t know what school you grew up in, but in mine, the phrase “Everyone else is doing it” always got the response “So if everyone else jumped off a bridge…”

Your foolish insitence that becayse a lot of software companies do this, it is ethical and should be tolerated is plain stupid. ISBN numbers changing to 13 digits could perhaps be explained away by the idea that they are running out of numbers, this format change from Intuit was nothing more than a money grab. I can fire up my computer right now and use Office97 with no problems. I can exchange data in any of of a dozen standard formats using it and still play nicely with a large majority of the world. Yes, I can’t buy it in the store anymore, but my program still works and does what it promised it would do back in 1997 when it was released. Data from a banking institution is no different, it should be easily exchangeable, but some people have a stranglehold on the industry and are forcing it it change.

You want to complain about your industry, go right ahead. I think the majority of consumers probably agree that this was a shitty move by Intuit.

40

[QUOTE=GaWd]
Why do you all seem to think that your products should be supported for decades, just because you paid for them?

Technology changes, processes change, the cost to support old, obsolete formats and versions of software is tremendous. Specific to this topic, there were HUGE changes in the banking industry and support formats of data from financial institutions and whatnot in the last 3 years.
[/QUOTE]
This is not about standards, and this is not about support. I have no problem with Intuit changing their standard file format, and I have no problem with Intuit choosing not to support an older version of their software. What I do have a problem with is Intuit putting an unnecessary timebomb in their product which allows them to disable a key function of the program for no reason other than to render the product valueless and try to boost their sales. To me, it’s no different than if Honda put a subroutine in my car’s computer than refused to let it start once it was more than five years old. Hey, they’ve got to sell more cars, right?